Renters won't leave the house I'm buying, they 'can't find anywhere suitable'.

[wirldsgonemad]

But thanks to covid, a section 21 means people have 6 months instead of 2 months to vacate and this means I get charged £4,250 extra in stamp duty, plus mortgage application fees and survey of £1k plus my life being on hold for 6 months.

They are fully aware of my position, they know I'm a single mother of 2 small children and they don't give two hoots that they're actions are costing me £5-6k and months of waiting.

God give me strength to get through these next few months without attacking them on a regular basis.

What would you do in my situation???

@Horehound

I don't understand how the Tenants can just decide to stay? If they had a 6m lease surely they need to leave at the end? Why was this section 2. Whatever it is issued allowing them to stay another 6 months when they'd have been leaving in two weeks time? 🤔

Anyway, I'd pull out. There's always another house.

Because that's not how housing law works in this country.

It's people like your seller who give landlords a bad name.

Let your head rule your heart in this. Imagine if it was a friend telling you what you're telling us. You'd surely tell them to steer clear.

You seem certain that you want this house, insist on vacant possession but exchange contracts now with a delayed completion say in 6 months or until the tenants have vacated? I’d negotiate hard with the vendor for a discount for the inconvenience and or for him to meet your mortgage application costs as most likely your offer would have expired by then.

@CoffeeRunner

Folk. Please read.

The OP cannot & will not buy the house with tenants in situ. She cannot. Her mortgage will not allow.

Her query is does she wait. Any other talk is bullshit as she cannot take on the tenants. That simply won’t happen.

ooohhh dear ...

OP walk away 🌺

As much as you don’t want to hear it you need to walk away.

This house is going to haemorrhage money the longer it goes on. You may need an up to date valuation, new searches or the mortgage product on your current offer may no longer be available after the offer expires. If banks tighten their lending criteria you might even be restricted in the amount of lending and need a larger deposit or not be able to buy at all. As someone who worked in mortgage lending for over a decade; I consider proceeding with this property will be a very expensive mistake.

The tenants do not HAVE to leave until the bailiffs arrive and at present there is a long delay to get the bailiffs. Also if the section 21 has not been correctly issued with all the relevant documentation in place then the application can fail.

Your best plan may be to pay the tenants to leave.

"The house was for sale, I looked, it didn't have tenants in but they had just signed to rent that week. Owner said he is desperate to sell and earliest will be in 6 months when tenancy is up. If I love the house, why would I not go for it, it would still be for sale and someone else would have gone for it. The renters would have been in the same position."

I kind of don't blame the renters. If id just signed a tenancy agreement I wouldn't shift either. I can see your frustrations but that is not their fault. They have probably spent a fortune on the deposit too.

do you not understand that the rental market is horrific at the minute people are losing their homes and having to wait months to find alternative accommodation? At the end of the day they will be irritated their rental property is being sold whilst they are in it, and like people above said just pull out not worth the hassle even at the six month mark they could refuse to leave and you would have to go to court to have them removed.

I think people are being a bit harsh, it sounds to me OP is not asking the tenants to leave early. Their rental is up this month and their contract is over so they should be leaving in the next few days so OP can complete and move in. However they don't want to vacate so a S.21 has had to be issued because they are now overstaying their tenancy.

OP knew everything when she started on this journey last year but had the expectation that after thir 6mnts was up the tenants would leave .. but they are not....

OP sounds like you have done nothing wrong, I would try to keep all goodwill with the tenants cos the last thing you need now is badwill leading to them trashing the place.

Good luck

This is so horrible, those poor tenants. I hope they stay put as long as possible. How dare people rent out a house knowing full well they will sell it shortly. Do people not realise especially during a pandemic how precarious renting can feel?

I dot understand you op, you keep saying why wouldn't you buy it if you love it? Well that's up to you in that situation, but you've posed the question as what would others do and so they are giving their reasons that they would pull out. By all means wait 6 months. You can't force them out when their lease is 6 month. Your anger should be towards the seller when you found out he has tenants in when the house is for sale.

There will be other prefect houses out there. Cut your losses and pull out OP

You have been very foolish to proceed on a house with sitting tenants. It isn't your perfect house, far from it.

@wirldsgonemad

I can't buy with the tenants in because that would be a buy to let mortgage and those rates are much worse.

Then you have no choice but to pull out and find another house. It's only a house, there are others.

To be honest, my solicitor, like many others out there, has been very busy with lots of exchanges etc because the property market has been very hot. He didn't show concern re the tenants.

Then he's not very good at his job.

@cherryolives

To be honest, my solicitor, like many others out there, has been very busy with lots of exchanges etc because the property market has been very hot. He didn't show concern re the tenants.

Then he's not very good at his job.

It’s unbelievable your solicitor would not ‘show concern’ at a client buying a tenanted property, which fact was not known about at the start of the conveyance. It’s professionally negligent.

@AnnLouiseB

If you love the house enough to take the financial hit, then do so. If not, pull out.

You could ask the seller if they would accept a reduction in the price to the value of the money you’ll lose. Since they can’t offer vacant possession they can’t really expect you to pay full price. If they won’t reduce the price, you have the option of walking away. That might concentrate their minds.

This

@MrsJackRackham

Can you complete the sale and you become the LL and collect the rent? (might be a stupid idea as I have no idea how these things work 🤷🏻‍♀️)

This maybe the best solution if you live the house that much.

@mathanxiety

Agree, *@WombatChocolate*.

Did you answer an ad in a paper or online without going through an EA, OP?

It's all through an EA

The attitude towards tenants on this thread by some is quite sad.

I rent because I'm a single parent and a teacher. I was financially shafted by my ex husband and have been unable to recover from that.

I've lived in my current home for 14 years. Whilst the LL has always sent a plumber etc round when I've called re an issue, she has never made good on any of the damage that problems have caused and issues that have not risked structural damage to the property haven't been addressed - damaged kitchen cabinets from leak, a hole in the ceiling...

In that time, I've redecorated the house twice to a higher standard than it was when I moved in and made countless little minor repairs along the way. When moved in, she told me to treat it as though it were mine - no restrictions on hanging pictures, decorating, pets etc. And I have. In every sense.

She now wants to sell and came to do an inspection a couple of weeks ago prior to having EAs round to value the place. It's the first time she has stepped foot inside the house in 10 years!

First off, she wasn't aware of the law and only issued a 2 month notice from 1st Sept. I responded to that and she issued the 6 month notice (from 1st Oct) but expects it to be only 5 months in reality because she didn't realise the 6 month notice period was to take effect from the newly reissued notice date rather than just extending the first notice date.

I'l be happy to leave tbh. There's a lot that needs doing to a house over 14 years and none of it has been done. I've kept it in a good state of repair/decoration - you wouldn't identify it on my very nice street as a tenanted house. And I'm hoping that i have found somewhere - just waiting for the Letting Agent to give the go ahead. As such, I haven't pointed out her error in the notice period because, hopefully, it will he irrelevant but, if this house falls through for any reason, I'll have no choice but to exercise my rights as a tenant.

I'm not a dick and I understand why she needs to sell and have sympathy for that. But I'm not living here as a favour to her and if i am unable to move expediently, then I will act within the law. As always.

Not sure why some people think that makes me scum or a squatter...

Having said all that, OP, i feel for you but you do sound as though you have tried (and are still trying) to be 'very nice' about it all.

Your answers to questions about notices, solicitors etc have been quite vague and that is why you are getting lots of, probably not very helpful, advice. People are having to try and make sense of the situation and piece it together with many gaps that leave a lot of it open to interpretation and misunderstandings.

It sounds to me that you have been somewhat duped by all sides. You've taken things at face value when you should have been asking tougher questions and setting out tougher boundaries for yourself. But the tenants are bit at fault in any way.

Even the whole nonsense of the LL asking them to.leave in December but only issuing a S21 two weeks ago. They have absolutely no obligation to move out before S21 (or similar) has been issued and the LL should have known that. Even then, S21 is the start if the process. Not the process in its entirety.

They are entitled by law (so not squatters) to remain in the property until the moment the bailiffs arrive to evict them. They also have a legal responsibility to continue paying rent during this time. The court process was put on hold last year and, when I spoke with Shelter to clarify the legal position in my own situation, I was advised that I'd be unlikely to have to move out for around a year after the S21 notice expired as a result. You could be in for a long wait!

@WombatChocolate

I can't see that this is actually what happened. Either this is a reverse, or parts of the story are missing. An estate agent, buyer and sellers soliciors, and a buyer would not all sit quietly for months without mentioning that notice needed to be given to the tenants. Everyone knows you cannot exchange with tenants still in the property and that Covid means the notice periods are longer and so this stuff is even more important now than usual. Already, it was an unusual situation that most estate agents and solicitors would advise against - a property being marketed and a sale agreed whilst tenanted. At the very least, notice would be given immediately, especially given they had only just moved in and would be unlikely to want to go early.

Op, what have the solicitors and estate agents said when you have approached them about the fact formal notice hadn't been given?

The standard paperwork for mortgages and to create a memorandum of also and to do the initial solicitor start-up all involves disclosing if there are tenants, and if notice has been given. It couldn't just be passed by without anyone expressing concern that there were tenants still there and no notice had been served. It just couldn't.

Did the Landlord actually market the property Op and did you see it via an estate agent or was it a property you loved and you simply approached him for a sale? You haven't mentioned estate agents.

You certainly won't be getting the stamp duty holiday and unless you can get an enpxtension on the mortgage offer, that money is gone. It isn't down to the ten ants who had just m odd in and not been served notice. You now say they have been served notice 2 weeks ago and are saying they can't find anywhere....well it's not bloody surprising is it, in the space of 2 weeks and they were under no obligation to even consider lookimg elsewhere before notice was given and before they got close to the end of the notice period. I cannot see any gripe against the tenants at all.

You seem determined to hold on. Well you can. You might have to pay another mortgage fee (or you might get an extension but as the property market is likely to decline after the end of stamp duty holiday, they might want another valuation done or not be prepared to extend becaue of all the uncertainty) and you won't get the stamp duty holiday and you might find you can't exchange in 6 months becaue eviction proceedings are needed.....or that actually this seller isn't really interested in selling at all but is just pissing about because he needs to appease a mortgage lender he is in arrears to and who is threatening repossession if he doesn't sell first.....but doesn't really want to.

You can hold in and keep spending more money and have an indefinite end if any end in sight. Will you stick with your solicitor given their lack of advice is what has got you in the mess, according to your story.

I phoned the EA in December and asked if notice had been given, EA said yes. Turns out the seller didn't want a S21 issued then because it would have a 6 month date on it. Seller hoped renters would leave with 2months 'verbal' notice. I have kicked off about the S21 not being issued in December but can also see why it wasn't issued.

Seller hoped renters would leave with 2months 'verbal' notice

Tbh, that was a huge red flag!

ThebLL/vendor has tried to operate outside of the law every step of the way.

Are you paying rent while you wait for the tenants to vacate?

This is bonkers (even if you are not paying rent( I agree you should reduce tour offer and threaten to pull out to force the landlord/seller to absorb the costs of his decision.

Frankly, I think you are being taken for a ride, there are no warranties the tenants would leave without destroying the house after what seems a very difficult time for them.

If I were you I would start looking for another house in the meantime, plan B un case this takes a few years to get sorted as if they don’t leave by the deadline of S21, they need to be taken to court and that would take ages.

@bigdecisionstomake

If the tenants were only just being offered a new tenancy when you looked at it, you must have known that the very earliest you could possibly have completed on it would have been 6 months later, and in reality probably significantly longer than that.

I'm a bit confused therefore why it's suddenly a problem that you'll miss the stamp duty holiday.... unless this has already been going on for more than 6 months?

I think the owner/landlord is being a bit of a CF - if the property was empty and on the market he should have kept it that way with vacant possession ready for a buyer. It sounds instead as if he has wanted to have his cake and eat it by getting rent in while it was on the market for sale. The current 6 month notice period and massive court delays for section 21 makes that a very big gamble.

Yes I knew exchange would be 6 months later, which is now and still in time for the stamp duty. I didn't know about the 6months s.21 or it taking longer. I have rented myself previously and when asked to leave, I have. I don't assume that everyone will fight.