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Renters won't leave the house I'm buying, they 'can't find anywhere suitable'.

873 replies

wirldsgonemad · 12/02/2021 17:42

But thanks to covid, a section 21 means people have 6 months instead of 2 months to vacate and this means I get charged £4,250 extra in stamp duty, plus mortgage application fees and survey of £1k plus my life being on hold for 6 months.

They are fully aware of my position, they know I'm a single mother of 2 small children and they don't give two hoots that they're actions are costing me £5-6k and months of waiting.

God give me strength to get through these next few months without attacking them on a regular basis.

What would you do in my situation???

OP posts:
user1471538283 · 12/02/2021 21:56

I dont know what your solicitor was thinking!

I would pull out unless the vendor covered my costs. Although from my recent experience when stuff happens it is always better to pull out. I will I had with our last house ...

LIZS · 12/02/2021 21:59

Sunk costs fallacy. The situation could get worse before it gets better. I fear ultimately the "dream" property will prove a disappointment.

RincewindsHat · 12/02/2021 22:00

I would pull out.

They may refuse to move at all, plus they may stop paying rent and the owner may not be able to evict them (and there's a huge backlog in the courts for exactly this type of case).

Pull out or negotiate a different deal, this is way too risky unless this is the one house in all the land for you and you must live in it or you will regret it forever and ever...in reality, you'd find somewhere different.

bloodyhairy · 12/02/2021 22:08

Bloody annoying tenants and vendor. Really, really feel for you OP, and hope that everything works out for the best Thanks

canigooutyet · 12/02/2021 22:09

Are they all clueless? Well apart from the tenants.

They moved in August with a 6 month lease.
In December they were told to start looking for another place.

They have since had offers of cash from the buyer.

I wouldn’t be in any rush to just settle. The S21 now gives them several months to find the home they love rather than some dive just to make others happy.

You would also be daft to proceed without seeing the property now. Not because of the tenants but the LL seems only interested in cash and has he been paying for upkeep.
But the tenants are more than legally allowed to say no.

FreshFancyFrogglette · 12/02/2021 22:12

You would need to offer the tenants a lot more than £2k in this climate!! The costs of moving (assuming that they don't get their deposit back, have a bad credit rating, and no guarantor) could equal as much as 6 months rent up front, as that is what many private Landlords are asking for. This is especially true if they don't believe that the renters would be able to afford the rent long term.

The reasons that LL's won't rent it out without this is because it is really difficult and expensive to evict a tenant for non-payment of rent, and they don't want to find themselves in that position.

So the only other choice that the tenant has (if you won't offer to pay for them to have 6 months rent up front, and even then they've got the stress of paying rent at that price once the 6 months is up!) is to wait for a formal eviction, and forceful removal by bailiffs, so that they qualify for social housing. If they leave when the first eviction notice is served, or even the third, fourth, fifth, any amount up until forceable removal, is counted as voluntary!!

PATH and other organisations actually advise them to stay until bailiffs turn up to turf them out.

CoffeeRunner · 12/02/2021 22:15

Folk. Please read.

The OP cannot & will not buy the house with tenants in situ. She cannot. Her mortgage will not allow.

Her query is does she wait. Any other talk is bullshit as she cannot take on the tenants. That simply won’t happen.

WombatChocolate · 12/02/2021 22:15

I can't see that this is actually what happened.
Either this is a reverse, or parts of the story are missing. An estate agent, buyer and sellers soliciors, and a buyer would not all sit quietly for months without mentioning that notice needed to be given to the tenants. Everyone knows you cannot exchange with tenants still in the property and that Covid means the notice periods are longer and so this stuff is even more important now than usual. Already, it was an unusual situation that most estate agents and solicitors would advise against - a property being marketed and a sale agreed whilst tenanted. At the very least, notice would be given immediately, especially given they had only just moved in and would be unlikely to want to go early.

Op, what have the solicitors and estate agents said when you have approached them about the fact formal notice hadn't been given?

The standard paperwork for mortgages and to create a memorandum of also and to do the initial solicitor start-up all involves disclosing if there are tenants, and if notice has been given. It couldn't just be passed by without anyone expressing concern that there were tenants still there and no notice had been served. It just couldn't.

Did the Landlord actually market the property Op and did you see it via an estate agent or was it a property you loved and you simply approached him for a sale? You haven't mentioned estate agents.

You certainly won't be getting the stamp duty holiday and unless you can get an enpxtension on the mortgage offer, that money is gone. It isn't down to the ten ants who had just m odd in and not been served notice. You now say they have been served notice 2 weeks ago and are saying they can't find anywhere....well it's not bloody surprising is it, in the space of 2 weeks and they were under no obligation to even consider lookimg elsewhere before notice was given and before they got close to the end of the notice period. I cannot see any gripe against the tenants at all.

You seem determined to hold on. Well you can. You might have to pay another mortgage fee (or you might get an extension but as the property market is likely to decline after the end of stamp duty holiday, they might want another valuation done or not be prepared to extend becaue of all the uncertainty) and you won't get the stamp duty holiday and you might find you can't exchange in 6 months becaue eviction proceedings are needed.....or that actually this seller isn't really interested in selling at all but is just pissing about because he needs to appease a mortgage lender he is in arrears to and who is threatening repossession if he doesn't sell first.....but doesn't really want to.

You can hold in and keep spending more money and have an indefinite end if any end in sight. Will you stick with your solicitor given their lack of advice is what has got you in the mess, according to your story.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/02/2021 22:19

I know it's a bit beside the point, but can we please stop talking about offering tenants cash to leave?

This isn't these particular tenants' fault either, but surely people can see where this would lead, with the minority of horrible types with their hands out demanding "what you gonna give me then??"

I'd have thought there were enough overall problems in the housing market already, without creating another Hmm

CoffeeRunner · 12/02/2021 22:19

@canigooutyet

Are they all clueless? Well apart from the tenants.

They moved in August with a 6 month lease.
In December they were told to start looking for another place.

They have since had offers of cash from the buyer.

I wouldn’t be in any rush to just settle. The S21 now gives them several months to find the home they love rather than some dive just to make others happy.

You would also be daft to proceed without seeing the property now. Not because of the tenants but the LL seems only interested in cash and has he been paying for upkeep.
But the tenants are more than legally allowed to say no.

This makes me so angry. Tenants do not own a property.

If you can’t afford to buy your own you rent someone else’s. How dare they deny the owner the chance to sell?

CrotchetyQuaver · 12/02/2021 22:19

Don't do anything until the tenants have left. It's all the vendors fault. Currently tenants must be given 6 months notice to leave. We are waiting for tenants to move out of my late mothers house, hopefully at end of March as per the 6 months notice. Unfortunately there's not much out there on the rental market at the moment and they haven't found anything yet, we would of course have let them leave earlier if they had found something. I'm getting a bit worried for them now. If I had my way, I'd extend their tenancy for another 6 months and give 6 months notice at the same time, but it's not just down to me. It needs to be sold and we don't want to be in the situation of the tenants having viewings taking place and yet unable to find alternative accommodation. Or that they need to hang on until they are evicted to get talked on by the council as homeless.

Annabell80 · 12/02/2021 22:23

Because they need somewhere to live. The council won't help unless you have a court order.
If you rent out your property that's the risk you take

Bedforme · 12/02/2021 22:26

OP

Did your solicitor formally flag up the dangers of buying a house with sitting tenants? Did they explain how long the eviction process could take? Were they only not concerned because after this advice you decided you were only going ahead after the there was vacant possession?

The mortgage company would not be concerned as they will not lend until after the issue is resolved.

It doesn’t matter how busy the market is. If the solicitors do not have the capacity to give comprehensive, full legal advice they should not take on the work. If they failed to advise about length of eviction process then you could start the complaints process (if you did want to follow up formally for example Solicitor Regulatory Authority) that would be the first step.)

WombatChocolate · 12/02/2021 22:27

Coffee, they are not denying the owner the chance to sell.
Landlords with tenants know they cannot exchange on the property with tenants still there. They have to plan ahead much more with their sales. Usually they wait until tenants leave naturally or give notice and when the tenants go, they then market the property and sell it.

These tenants have not blocked the sale. Their tenancy is for a certain period and tenants always have the right to alt least 2 months notice and at the moment 6 months notice. They have not refused to leave within this notice and in fact we only given notice 2 weeks ago. They have not been obstructive at all. The title of the thread suggests they have been but if you read the thread you'll see they haven't been.

wowier · 12/02/2021 22:28

I would walk away

wowier · 12/02/2021 22:30

If you can’t afford to buy your own you rent someone else’s.

That's not the only reason people rent.

How dare they deny the owner the chance to sell?

eh? Are we talking about the same thread?

Horehound · 12/02/2021 22:31

I don't understand how the Tenants can just decide to stay? If they had a 6m lease surely they need to leave at the end?
Why was this section 2. Whatever it is issued allowing them to stay another 6 months when they'd have been leaving in two weeks time? 🤔

Anyway, I'd pull out. There's always another house.

WombatChocolate · 12/02/2021 22:32

I still doubt we are hearing a full and accurate story.

The idea that neither the buyers or sellers solicitor raised the issue of tenants still present and no notice even given, plus the estate agent didn't mention it either, just can't be right.

Unless this was a very unusual agreement....informal between Op and the seller and not based on an estate agent, plus no solicitors involved until very recently or not at all, I can t see how this can all have gone on since September with no-one raising the very obvious problem which is one of the first things solicitors look at. The idea they weren't bothered by the tenants being there or that notice hadn't been given, just doesn't hold water.

canigooutyet · 12/02/2021 22:33

At the moment they are legally living in the property having just been served their S21.
It might be annoying for the buyer.
And the seller well boohoo they created the situation.
It might annoy you however they are doing as you suggested. They rented a property and told a few months later they need to move.
It’s not even the middle of February. Is it any suprise they haven’t found anywhere suitable?
How they stopping the buyer? They could have sold to another btl agent.

Bubbles1st · 12/02/2021 22:33

Cant you buy it with them as tenants and they at least pay you rent until they leave. If so also up the rent. If you really love the house...

wowier · 12/02/2021 22:33

The idea that neither the buyers or sellers solicitor raised the issue of tenants still present and no notice even given, plus the estate agent didn't mention it either, just can't be right

doesn't make sense.

Bubbles1st · 12/02/2021 22:34

Oh just caught and saw issues with but to let

ArosAdraDrosDolig · 12/02/2021 22:37

They probably genuinely can’t find anywhere suitable. We’ve been trying to move (renting) for over a year and nothing around at all.

Have some sympathy for the tenants who moved in without being told that the house was being sold and now have to fund moving, uproot any dc, suffer the upheaval etc.

mathanxiety · 12/02/2021 22:57

It seems from your responses here that your solicitor and mortgage broker are very unconcerned about the financial hit you are about to take on the nose.

You need to review your assumption that because someone is polite and pleasant to deal with he is honest. The vendor advertised the property for sale OR rent and should have turned you down. Not that I believe for a moment the cock and bull story about signing the lease exactly when you were calling about buying anyway...

Back out of this. Do not make major financial decisions with your heart. You have two children depending completely on you.

You will find the right property after the stamp duty holiday ends. There will be a lot of collapsed chains and motivated sellers during the first couple of weeks after the holiday ends. Yes you may have to pay stamp duty but you may well end up with a house ready for you to move into.

mathanxiety · 12/02/2021 23:01

Agree, @WombatChocolate.

Did you answer an ad in a paper or online without going through an EA, OP?

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