Renters won't leave the house I'm buying, they 'can't find anywhere suitable'.

[wirldsgonemad]

But thanks to covid, a section 21 means people have 6 months instead of 2 months to vacate and this means I get charged £4,250 extra in stamp duty, plus mortgage application fees and survey of £1k plus my life being on hold for 6 months.

They are fully aware of my position, they know I'm a single mother of 2 small children and they don't give two hoots that they're actions are costing me £5-6k and months of waiting.

God give me strength to get through these next few months without attacking them on a regular basis.

What would you do in my situation???

I didn't know about the 6months s.21 or it taking longer.

You should have made yourself aware of the full legalities of the situation.

They are not 'fighting', they are operating within the law.

@BlackBucketOfCheese

what happens if I LOVE the house?

What happens if they LOVE their home?

It’s not their home tho

It’s not their home tho

It is.

Its not their house but it is their home.

And they have legal paperwork to prove it.

I have rented myself previously and when asked to leave, I have. I don't assume that everyone will fight.

Op - you may well have been in a position to leave when ‘asked’ (‘required’ I’m guessing is the better word).
So too may these tenants. They aren’t required to leave for some time. It is their home. They are not ‘fighting’. If you carry on seeing it as them ‘fighting’ then I absolutely urge you to pull out for your sake and theirs. Basic understanding and acceptance of tenants’ rights not to be evicted unlawfully will be essential for your mental health if you do decide to wait this out.

@wombat1a

I think people are being a bit harsh, it sounds to me OP is not asking the tenants to leave early. Their rental is up this month and their contract is over so they should be leaving in the next few days so OP can complete and move in. However they don't want to vacate so a S.21 has had to be issued because they are now overstaying their tenancy.

OP knew everything when she started on this journey last year but had the expectation that after thir 6mnts was up the tenants would leave .. but they are not....

OP sounds like you have done nothing wrong, I would try to keep all goodwill with the tenants cos the last thing you need now is badwill leading to them trashing the place.

Good luck

They aren't overstaying their tenancy. A tenancy doesn't end at the end of a fixed term unless the tenant or the court ends it. That's housing law and every landlord should know that and factor that in. There should never be an expectation that tenants will vacate at the end of a fixed term.

It’s not their home tho

Yes it is. Tenants have legal rights to occupy properties and live in them ergo it is their home. Just think for a moment what you have said. Only 40% of households in the U.K. have the right to have a home? Everyone else has to live as a type of paying guest wherever they are? This is elitist, classist bollocks.

Why is everyone so sympathetic with the renters? They knew the house was on the market when they moved in. I rented for 15 years, a few places, and I always knew that I could be served notice any time. That’s the way it goes. It’s not nice, but it’s not illegal or morally wrong

Yep.

The housing rental market in the U.K. is absolutely insane. I’m a renter actually and don’t understand deadbeat renters, honestly. You sign a contract so abide by it, why wait for notices to expire/bailiffs to show up to leave?!

This is why I need a huge amount of money up front to move anywhere in the UK; LLs get burned and up the entry costs to protect themselves, which really hurts renters in the end ....

@CodenameVillanelle

It’s not their home tho

Yes it is. Tenants have legal rights to occupy properties and live in them ergo it is their home. Just think for a moment what you have said. Only 40% of households in the U.K. have the right to have a home? Everyone else has to live as a type of paying guest wherever they are? This is elitist, classist bollocks.

I’m a renter because I don’t plan to put roots in the UK. Simple as

The house was for sale, I looked, it didn't have tenants in but they had just signed to rent that week

The vendor is a CF, putting tenants into a property that he's actively marketing. He/she is an idiot, too, wtf did they think was going to happen?

The housing rental market in the U.K. is absolutely insane. I’m a renter actually and don’t understand deadbeat renters, honestly. You sign a contract so abide by it, why wait for notices to expire/bailiffs to show up to leave?!

I’m a renter because I don’t plan to put roots in the UK. Simple as

That's fine and that's your situation but the law is quite clear on this.

The LAW.

I've explained my situation above. I'm not 'deadbeat'. I earn around £32k a year in a professional career but I'm a lone parent and, on my salary alone, cannot afford to save a £40-60k deposit.

My plan is to leave before my notice period ends but, if I am unable to, my choices are to stay, and continue to pay rent, or to become homeless. There is no legal requirement for me to become homeless and i can continue living here legally.

Currently, there ae very few properties that meet my requirements and those requirements are very minimal - min 2 bedroom, within my financial budget and on the local, extensive and well serviced trainline so my child, who is in the middle of their GCSEs can continue their schooling uninterrupted. And the competition is fierce.

Most people.who live here are living here permanently so your circumstances are yours and no one elses.

Only you can decide if you absolutely looooooooove the house enough to put up with the shit the owner has pulled on everyone.

@wombat1a

I think people are being a bit harsh, it sounds to me OP is not asking the tenants to leave early. Their rental is up this month and their contract is over so they should be leaving in the next few days so OP can complete and move in. However they don't want to vacate so a S.21 has had to be issued because they are now overstaying their tenancy.

OP knew everything when she started on this journey last year but had the expectation that after thir 6mnts was up the tenants would leave .. but they are not....

OP sounds like you have done nothing wrong, I would try to keep all goodwill with the tenants cos the last thing you need now is badwill leading to them trashing the place.

Good luck

ASTs don't just end when the six months come to an end, they become rolling contracts requiring one month's notice from the tenant to the landlord and, at present, six months notice from landlord to tenant (two months in non-Covid times).

The law is very strict as to form and content of the notice, and also what documents the tenants must have been provided with in order for the notice to be valid (plus the deposit must be protected). OP, it's in your best interests to check that the notice given was valid. If it wasn't, the tenants don't have to mention it and can just happily stay there knowing it was invalid and can't be acted upon after the six months are up. At which point, it would need to be served again.

Anyone saying that this isn't the tenants' home is just an idiot. Your home is where you live. It isn't necessary to own it for it to be your home.

Also, so very little understanding of tenants' rights on here. Which is fine, but spouting rubbish and giving advice when you have no clue is pointless and doesn't help the OP. M

@wirldsgonemad, you should pull out. This could take well over a year to resolve and drive you to distraction. Find another house.

You must walk away. If you end up having to go through the courts to evict them it could cost thousands. Vacant possession has to be a condition of a sale.

And those blaming the OP for offering on a house with tenants - they signed a 6 month tenancy agreement knowing full well the house was for sale & that the 6 months would not be extended

How can we possibly know what the tenants knew? Do you think all tenants should check on Rightmove before signing a tenancy, just in case the LL is a duplicitous fucker?

Even if there was a "for sale" board outside, the LL could have told them they weren't selling any more but that the board hadn't been taken down yet. (This actually happened to clients of mine - tenants had been in 2 weeks and took the board down themselves, the EA came and put the sign back up, the tenants complained to the EA and were gobsmacked when the EA said it was still on the market).

The only one at fault here is the LL/vendor.

The housing rental market in the U.K. is absolutely insane. I’m a renter actually and don’t understand deadbeat renters, honestly. You sign a contract so abide by it, why wait for notices to expire/bailiffs to show up to leave?!

Because that's what the law allows them to do. It is not 'deadbeat' to act within the law (and, FWIW, waiting until the notice expires and waiting for the bailiffs are two very separate / distinct things).

There's a reason there's a 6 month notice period at the moment. Staying til the end of it isn't a deadbeat action.

Stop implying that she’s making the renters homeless. They’ll just have to find somewhere else, like people always do

In what world do tenants "always" manage to find somewhere else? Not in the English private rental sector, that's for sure. How do you think people end up rough sleeping and sofa surfing?

They're not all addicts or feckless, it can happen all too easily.

Because that's what the law allows them to do. It is not 'deadbeat' to act within the law (and, FWIW, waiting until the notice expires and waiting for the bailiffs are two very separate / distinct things)

Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s not a shit move. It’s seems more likely than not that the tenants knew this would be a short-term arrangement. So why weren’t they prepared to leave when it was coming to and end?

Like I said, this is why you need a load of cash upfront and background checks/salary proof just to get a decent place to live (not easy to get sufficient proof as an immigrant btw).

Most people.who live here are living here permanently so your circumstances are yours and no one elses

It’s the stereotype of renters as hard up, that we just don’t have money for a deposit and that’s why we rent. For many of us, it’s a deliberate choice and not one foisted on us by circumstance. That’s why I revealed my situation as a renter, just one among many that isn’t about not having a deposit or whatever

And the law that ‘protects’ renters actually makes things more difficult imo.

Actually I'd be telling the owner of the property you are purchasing that you can't without the tenants leaving and I'd also be telling them as it was their negligence that has put you in this position that I'd be expecting them to cover the cost of stamp duty and/or eviction of tenants. Your mortgage lender will expect you to take the property over as vacant possession.

So why weren’t they prepared to leave when it was coming to and end?

Because the tenancy DOESN'T end at that point. It becomes a rolling tenancy until notice is given by one of the parties.

And you're assuming they knew. I bet they didn't! And, even if they did, they still don't have to give up their legal right to live there.

If landlords don't want to comply with housing law then they shouldn't be landlords and / or trying to have their cake and eat it by trying to sell with their tenants in situ.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup, if they don't have children and aren't in any way vulnerable (ie no health or disability issues), they wouldn't be entitled to social housing under homelessness legislation. The council would only put them on the housing register, and in some areas councils are being very frank and telling housing applicants that they will probably never get social housing.

Last year, Inside Housing reported that there are 1.16m households on housing registers nationally.

f landlords don't want to comply with housing law then they shouldn't be landlords and / or trying to have their cake and eat it by trying to sell with their tenants in situ

They should absolutely comply with the law.

But can we just acknowledge that the laws are shitty? They end up hurting a lot of renters too. It’s already increasing the costs—already many ask for two months deposit! It’s definitely related to the hassle of getting tenants to leave in a timely fashion ...

@UsedUpUsername

f landlords don't want to comply with housing law then they shouldn't be landlords and / or trying to have their cake and eat it by trying to sell with their tenants in situ

They should absolutely comply with the law.

But can we just acknowledge that the laws are shitty? They end up hurting a lot of renters too. It’s already increasing the costs—already many ask for two months deposit! It’s definitely related to the hassle of getting tenants to leave in a timely fashion ...

It's against the law to ask for two months deposit. Tenancy law protects tenants. If landlords resent those protections and try to find ways around them they should not be landlording.

Nope. The law isn't shitty. Landlords trying to wriggle out of complying with the law are shitty though.

Two months' deposit isn't allowed, it it capped at 5 weeks.

@UsedUpUsername

Because that's what the law allows them to do. It is not 'deadbeat' to act within the law (and, FWIW, waiting until the notice expires and waiting for the bailiffs are two very separate / distinct things)

Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s not a shit move. It’s seems more likely than not that the tenants knew this would be a short-term arrangement. So why weren’t they prepared to leave when it was coming to and end?

Like I said, this is why you need a load of cash upfront and background checks/salary proof just to get a decent place to live (not easy to get sufficient proof as an immigrant btw).

Most people.who live here are living here permanently so your circumstances are yours and no one elses

It’s the stereotype of renters as hard up, that we just don’t have money for a deposit and that’s why we rent. For many of us, it’s a deliberate choice and not one foisted on us by circumstance. That’s why I revealed my situation as a renter, just one among many that isn’t about not having a deposit or whatever

And the law that ‘protects’ renters actually makes things more difficult imo.

You seem to have a unique perspective on renting as a wealthy immigrant which is fine but may explain why you can't wrap your head around tenancy law in this country and what the purpose of it is. The fact that it's hard to rent is not because the law protects renters. It's a complex mix of factors including the history of social housing and right to buy, housing bubble protection by successive governments, the pension crisis leading to a lack of viable investments for people for retirement etc. You're simplifying and showing you don't understand the issues at all.

One thing that always shocks me on these threads is how unaware many people are of the realities of the housing situation in the UK.

So many people think it's easy for tenants to find another property, or that the council will somehow magic up a home for them to live in if they become homeless, when that couldn't be further from the truth.