To think we have to accept that we need to use savings to fund care in old age

[LastDuchessFerrara]

My parents died before reaching old age but I'm now watching family and friends caring - in one form or another - for older relatives.

Many seem to be in denial about the fact that savings, pensions and, in some cases equity in their home, needs to be used to enable their relatives to continue to stay in their homes or go into care.

"But they've worked all their lives!" they cry in protest. Well, yes - and now that money needs to be used in their old age.

It's really focussed my mind on how any money I accumulate might not be spent on amazing holidays but paying for cleaners and carers.

I'd be interested in views but please can this not be a "boomer" bashing thread. I know plenty of impoverished old people and plenty of entitled non-boomers.

@BigWoollyJumpers

DM was very much of the view that she should pay for her own care, and good on her. It cost £900 a week for her care home, she was there for a couple of years until she died. What is gives you is freedom of choice. She also had live in careers for a year, and if she didn't like them, changed them. She also spent several thousand pounds on dental treatment, and kept her health cover which also cost about £1k a month. She was obviously a wealthy woman, so had these choices, and there isn't much left now. But I think she did the right thing. Why should the state pay for someone like her. And why would she want to be limited to a state provided package when she could choose for herself how to live her last years.

I think if you have means it is not right that you take from the state in order to pass inheritance on. You work to live, and that includes covering provision for old age.

It’s unfair, because wealthy people diagnosed with terminal cancer aren’t expected to pay for anything!

My grandmother is devastated she’s lived to 95. She wants to die and the money she and my granddad (who died 18 years ago) saved go to us. The difficulty is seeing her selfish friends who had no savings get their care state funded but those who save have to pay, often for care in the same home. It’s a two tier system. I’m not talking about millionaires either. Dg wanted to stay in her home with live in carers (which she has done for 2 years at £2400 per week). Her funds are now low so she has to move into a care home as her home needs to be sold. They won’t fund home care even in part if we as a family topped it up each month. We can’t afford £10k per month and now all my dh’s savings are gone she’s forced out of her home.

We have said we want the money to look after her but that’s not what she wanted. It does also make you think why bother saving as the state might as well pay and I’ll blow my money on holidays and drugs are 80.

Dg not dh

*I think we should have state sponsored care which isn't run for profit and operates on NHS lines.

My best friend's DM recently died after a spell in a care home. You wouldnt have wished her death on your worst enemy.

It was unclear what the £700 per week - or whatever it was - was being spent on but it certainly wasn't for caring staff or decent facilities.

There are too many businesses and individuals making ££££ out of elderly care*.
. @THisbackwithavengeance

I agree with this totally. We managed to keep my mum at home with carers. She was funded by the local authority and they were paying agencies £28ph for each carer and in some appointments she had 2. These carers were being paid minimum wage. The whole industry has been monatised. Fair enough people should have to pay for their care but not the vast uplift that is being paid to private companies.

anyone expecting an inheritance is a fool.

In addition - a big part of the problem is that while we may want someone to put a pillow over our heads, that's not a choice we have unless you can hire a contract killer. Any relatives helping you will face murder charges.

example - if you get dementia, there's no dignified or painless escape. You will have to vegetate in care using up all the money, and then the state's money after that. If it gets bad, (and it often does) your rare moments of lucidity will be in utter terror. At the moment it is go to Dignitas early (and not even at the moment due to the travel ban) or face that. 17 people a day die in terrible pain because medical science has limits, however good the carers. Many others have had enough and simply don't want to be waiting for something fatal while in a life that has long since lost all purpose and pleasure.

We need to grow up, fight the religious 'sanctity of life' nutjobs and allow the choice (and I stress, choice) of assisted dying. One of the arguments against it is 'preserving inheritance'. I intend to use my money to fund my old age, but even if it ends up as the state's money, I'd rather it wasn't spent keeping me alive when I'd rather be dead.

The nursing home where my OH last year cost nearly £1300 a week - yes, a week. I paid that in order to be sure he had the best - and he did. Lovely en suite rooms with all equipment provided in a subtle and non-hospital way - beautiful views from his french doors - lots of activities he could choose from 7 days a week (and not just bingo) - small friendly sitting rooms - a bar and a cafe - hairdressing on site and included in cost - kind and thoughtful staff with high standards. So they are not all grotty - but believe me some truly were - just plain awful.

I had to put my house on the market to be sure I could continue to pay for him - we had savings and he had a pension, but our liquid assets could nowhere near pay for the assessed contribution that social services demanded from us. It did feel wrong that I had to sell my home to pay for his care when we had saved all our lives and worked hard.

But I do not know what the answer is. I guess if you have savings and pensions these should be used to pay for your care; but the problem lies in the cost of care - anything half-way acceptable costs a fortune and there is no way that SSD can afford to pay this for everyone. They say a spouse living in the family home does not have to sell up to pay for care for a loved one - but that only applies if you are prepared for that person to go to a cheap and rubbish home.

"...where my OH died....."

For the majority of people, once they reach the stage of needing that level of care their quality of life is so poor they would rather not go on. However at this point they often don’t have the ability or capacity to end their life so it must feel like such an incredible waste of their resources.

[quote hammeringinmyhead]@Fuckingcrustybread I don't understand your point?

I'm saying they get angry about the amount that their children will have to pay, based on their current assets. They're early 60s. Whereas I expect they won't own all of their properties by the time they die so it's not worth getting worked up about yet. See also capital gains tax.[/quote]
Your PIL have worked and paid tax all their lives, any inheritance they leave will be taxed again, your husband will have to pay the tax before he receives his inheritance.
The Government don't add it all up, take the tax away then hand the residue to your husband. He will have to pay the tax before he sees any of his parents money.
I'm not surprised that they're angry.

@Mischance my grandmother is in London and won’t move so care home is £2000 a week (there was a cheaper one at £1700 a week but no way were we leaving her there!)

My views are not shared by many but we focus far too much on quantity of life at all costs because death is so taboo. I have no fear of death at all, I’d far rather die than live on and on into old age.

We struggled to buy our house, don’t have any savings. The reason we bought the house was to leave to the kids who have care needs of their own. If I’m at a stage where I can’t live independently then I would rather not continue to live and waste the kids inheritance on existing. There is a huge difference between quality and quantity of life and having watched relatives live on into their 90s theirs is not a life I would choose to continue with. Who knows by the time I’m that old euthanasia may be legal if not I will have a living will drawn up so I’m not kept alive for the sake of it and be allowed to die with dignity not treated for every illness for the sake of it.

I tell my husband all the time to push my wheelchair off the edge of a cliff once I start to deteriorate to the point that I don't have a good quality of life anymore.

@Lockheart
The relevant word there is 'can' Plenty of cancer patients have to find their own social care if their needs don't qualify for CHC, and some with dementia will qualify. Depends on their needs. In relation to the OP, I fully agree. I used to say to my late mum, "this is the rainy day you've been saving for". She paid for all her care and died of cancer.

Yes, spend whatever money you have either on having a good time or a care home, or both. I don't think anyone should expect inheritance. Me and DP have been telling our parents to spend and not hoard. Enjoy their lives while they still can.

@murbblurb the trouble is, I don't think a lot of people realise what dementia looks like. Just how horrific it is. I'd rather die of anything else.

I had to stop working in dementia units as it upset me so much. You would read through the information for each resident. Things the family had written about their lives. Where they had travelled, worked, what they had lived doing.

And it would kill me to see them propped up in bed or on a chair day in day out. With some of the staff not giving a shit, pulling them around getting them dressed, jamming food in their mouths.

I had one lovely lady who would grab my arm as I was turning her in the night and would mouth help me over and over. I used to just hug her and cry. Until I was barked at to move on to the next person. I was pulled in to the office and bollocked once for spending too much time with her when she was distressed. No one cared about that woman there.

My grandmother hung herself at 82. She felt herself slipping for a while. She had been a nurse. She knew what was coming and when the dr mentioned dementia she went. She did the right thing for herself.

@Fuckingcrustybread

Inheritance tax kicks in at over 650k, pushing a million if there's a house. Most of that will be unearned inflation. No-one should be angry at 'only' inheriting that kind of dough.

@PinkyParrot

My DM said to stick her in a home when she got old - due to her DM being a burden for many, many years on her DSis, however when the time came she wouldn't go. Did eventually but it made me the wicked DD.

Did you have power of attorney?

5 of top 7 care providers are registered charities or not for profit

A quick google, for those interested, shows that most of the top providers by volume, are indeed charities or not for profit. So pp's suggesting this should be the norm, it is already is!

Sorry you lost your parents younger OP, but would your stance be exactly the same if you watching every penny that your parents worked for going on care? Did you receive an inheritance?
I agree with your relatives. Their relatives worked their whole lives and paid taxes their whole lives, just like my parents. My mum is in a care home and it’s soul destroying watching her money go on her fees when she’s in there with people who are not paying, who haven’t worked, who have lived in council houses with reduced rents all of their lives, so don’t have a house to sell etc. Tell me, how is that fair?!!

State funded elderly care is unsustainable as is the state pension. I'm not sure what provisions will be available in the years to come but I wish we talked more openly about it.

If you can't live independently you'd rather not live? I think you're underestimating the life people can still have tho not independent.. I certainly don't feel the same. Please don't dismiss people's lives just because they need support and care. Having family, good conversation, laughs.. These continue and imo are the important things in life. You might feel differently if it happens to you.

My mum is in a care home and it’s soul destroying watching her money go on her fees when she’s in there with people who are not paying, who haven’t worked, who have lived in council houses with reduced rents all of their lives, so don’t have a house to sell etc. Tell me, how is that fair?!

What would you prefer? Seriously, what would you like to happen? People who have no assets or wealth built up to not receive any care at the end of their life?

@Fuckingcrustybread

I know how it works. We have recently lost 5 grandparents between us.

I was generally commenting that they expect they will still hold all their assets on death when it's likely they will need to pay for care for one or both of them.

[quote toconclude]@Fuckingcrustybread

Inheritance tax kicks in at over 650k, pushing a million if there's a house. Most of that will be unearned inflation. No-one should be angry at 'only' inheriting that kind of dough.[/quote]
You are completely missing my point. Your inheritance is £1 million, with the £650k allowance you pay £140k and then you get your inheritance. That's why I think that inheritance tax is unfair. The tax isn't deducted from your inheritance, you pay the tax upfront.

@PinkiOcelot
People funded by social care DO pay, all their income bar about 30 quid pocket money goes to their care. And no, they haven't all not worked or lived in social housing. Sorry to disappoint your undeserving poor rant.