To think we have to accept that we need to use savings to fund care in old age

[LastDuchessFerrara]

My parents died before reaching old age but I'm now watching family and friends caring - in one form or another - for older relatives.

Many seem to be in denial about the fact that savings, pensions and, in some cases equity in their home, needs to be used to enable their relatives to continue to stay in their homes or go into care.

"But they've worked all their lives!" they cry in protest. Well, yes - and now that money needs to be used in their old age.

It's really focussed my mind on how any money I accumulate might not be spent on amazing holidays but paying for cleaners and carers.

I'd be interested in views but please can this not be a "boomer" bashing thread. I know plenty of impoverished old people and plenty of entitled non-boomers.

The more I think about it the more peculiar I find it that people start flapping and panicking about the NHS being privatised yes think it's ok that you pay for geriatric care.

I'm all for charging people to visit A&E and having health based I incentives for accessing care yet it appalls people to think of a £10 fee to see a GP but £50k for a care home for health needs is just fine.

**19:51VinylDetective

We need to work on improved responsibility for health so fewer need care homes

Virtually every care home resident has dementia. No amount of health care prevents fractures; bones become brittle with age and a fall breaks them.

As for reducing working age benefits - they’re not enough to live on as it is. If you think they are, give it a go and see how you get on. Yes, you do believe the stereotypes. Maybe try volunteering at a food bank and get your eyes opened.**

Believe me I very much see a lot of what goes on with people recieving we taking age benefits. We should abolish it as a long term way of living unless you are so disabled paid employment is not possible.

That would generate a lot of money for care in later life

I'm all for charging people to visit A&E and having health based I incentives for accessing care

I bet you are.

it appalls people to think of a £10 fee to see a GP but £50k for a care home for health needs is just fine

Because not everyone has a spare £10 - or even just £10. Our care home fund is in six figures before the house has to go. It’s specifically earmarked for that. Chances are one of us will need it.

Since April 2020 there is a cap on how much you will have to pay for your care. Once you have spent £72k the government has to pay for your care.

People with Terminal diseases that are short lived get free care as they won’t need long term care.

Others with diseases that live for a long time have to pay full care if they have over £23,350 in savings.

My mum had Motor Neurone Disease, had 3 hours a day, 7 days a week for a year. 24/7 care for 15 months and 2 live in carers for the last 4 months. We paid nothing.

My dad has dementia and Alzheimer’s, he’s struggling with it right now. He has 2 hours of care 7 days a week and we pay in full. Their savings and mums life insurance will go on his care, we will pay £50k and then we will get a loan from the council for the other £22k. If he is at home at the end and he hasn’t spent it all, we will get the remainder back, we will sell the house and pay back the loan from the sale of the house. If he goes into a home then we will rent out the house until he passes to pay the loan. We probably will keep renting it after he passes.

My parents Will and Deeds state that they are tenants in common. Mum’s half of the house goes to her children and her grandchildren. Dad has done the same. They cannot make us sell the house. I urge every couple to do this.

It’s a tough one. I think if you have over a certain amount in assets/savings you should pay for care yourself. But that this should only apply to the very wealthy.

Everyone else should be entitled to quality care on the state. This should be paid for by taxing the very wealthy (even more). And maybe a special tax for huge online companies making a fortune out of uk citizens could help fund this.

CountryGirl, I find your attitude really unpleasant to be honest.

Yes there will be some people who could work and choose not to, it the system makes that much harder these days. It honestly as easy as just get on your bike and find a job and it’s going to get a lot harder as we enter the big recession shortly.

Zero hour contacts, irregular work, low levels of qualifications....lots of people ARE really keen to work and just can’t get work or enough regular work. Or some work huge numbers of hours for minimum wage and can’t support their families. An inability to recognise that large amounts of poverty are not self inflicted is really unpleasant. And then there’s the children in these situations, that you are condemning to hunger and further deprivation with the withdrawal of benefits you suggest.

Inequality and poverty are growing. There is going to be a growing need for benefits and the funding of care for the elderly who cannot pay. The bills are rocketing and will co tinge to do so. Just today the Chancellor talked about his forthcoming budget and that in the short term it’s going to be about providing help and support but in the medium term there have to be tax increases...people need to pay to support those who cannot support themselves. You really a rent going to like the changes that are on their way are you. The idea that everyone is suddenly going to get free old age care home places isn’t going to happen. If you’re comfortably off, you will be finding you are paying for your own in future and your increased taxes will be required to fund places for others too. It’s the reality.

@Callaird
There is not a £72k cap on care home fees, it was a proposal only, first made by T.May and then by Johnson but not put into law.

Since April 2020 there is a cap on how much you will have to pay for your care. Once you have spent £72k the government has to pay for your care

Any chance of a link? Because I don’t think this is correct.

Just today the Chancellor talked about his forthcoming budget and that in the short term it’s going to be about providing help and support but in the medium term there have to be tax increases

If thats correct, we are fucked, we need massive public spending, investment in skills and innovation, not more austerity and more inequality.

Well both are correct about the forthcoming budget JASJAS. The early phase is going to be about spending because it’s clear support is needed for people and businesses and to boost the economy. But he has also said he has to be honest about the medium term and getting public finances under control. Of course the government have spent vast vast sums over the last year and will spend vast sums more over the next year. It’s the right thing to do. And the right thing to do is also to be honest with people about some of the longer term consequences....that the government will need to raise some taxes. It’s not surprising at all really, but it’s interesting that he wants to make it really clear to people upfront and in advance of it. I think it’s right because too many people are like a few on this thread who seem to think government should pay for all to have free care home places, but don’t realise the money always has to come from somewhere.

@InFiveMins

I agree OP. We seem to have this mindset of 'we've worked all our lives for this' but why should we expect to be cared for in old age for free?! If you need care and have the resources to pay for it, you should pay for it - if that means you leave your relatives without inheritance, tough.

Does make me laugh how most of those who complain are the children of adults needing to go into care, don't want to pay for it but don't want to care for their parents either .

Totally agree with you.

However, there does need to be some kind of cap.

I looked after my mum for a long time, I was never very close with her, I loved her but didn’t have much time for her until she was diagnosed with a fatal illness, I’m so glad I did, we had some tough times but it was mostly happy and fun. She passed away in November, I miss her a lot.

My dad has Alzheimer’s and vascular dementia. I was always daddy’s girl, first born and very close to him. He is now at the angry part. Hates me, hits me, threatens me, screams, shouts and swears at me. Has broken my nose and 2 bones in my hand and throws things at me quite often, mainly tins of soup/beans/custard. Never says please or thank you, even in his lucid moments, except when there is someone else there! He is lovely to everyone else, my brother/carers/district nurses and other healthcare professionals. Over Christmas I was so close the drinking a glass of morphine (mums end of life medication) thankfully (or not!!) one of two friends who actually care, sent me a text and said ‘FaceTime in 5, see you there.

I cannot care for him. He will kill me. Or I will do it myself.

In case anyone is getting confused there are 2 countrygirls on this thread with diametrically opposed views😁

Oh, confusing!

I think it’s right because too many people are like a few on this thread who seem to think government should pay for all to have free care home places, but don’t realise the money always has to come from somewhere

Very true, but there is also priorities... send 100s of billions on HS railways at a time when working patterns may well change for good or spend a small amount of that on CH costs, scrap HS and invest in more better local services.
Small country doesn't need a HS railway.

Spot on posts from Wombat here.

I think it’s right because too many people are like a few on this thread who seem to think government should pay for all to have free care home places, but don’t realise the money always has to come from somewhere Of course it comes from somewhere. We spread the cost of the NHS across all taxpayers so that people unlucky enough to get an expensive illness don't bear the cost. Why can't we do the same for elder care, so that those unlucky enough to get dementia don't bear the whole cost themselves.

My cousin's father had an early onset dementia, at about 63, and went into care. It was paid for privately. But looked after, he was healthy. My cousins sold his property for his care; then another relative died (no children in this story) so they sold that property to fund care. Then my cousin, who was not a relation inherited from family, and all that money was spent too. In the end, before the individual died, his care costs burned through the value of three families' houses. For what?

MereD, a poster called HardbackWriter gave a very good answer to the same question upthread.

I think your question is asked by lots of people and is a very reasonable question. Apart from the population often not having the will to pay more taxes and government being dependent on the will of the people to remain in power (and ironically it’s often those who don’t want tos ell their houses to fund care and who think the state should pay for everyone, are also those who don’t want taxes raised to pay for it) there are the issues HardbackWriter mentioned about the sheer cost per week if carehome funding that is needed (often over £1k per week...so over £50k per year per person) and the burden falling on those of working age who are often struggling financially, to pay for a constantly forgoing group, many of whom actually have the funds themselves in their properties. The questions becomes why should they keep their assets because they’d like to give to family and expect the working generation to fund what is a vast vast sum which would be a significant increase in tax. See Hardbackwriters post - they put it better than me.

Df died of dementia after 7+ years in a nursing home (privately funded at huge cost).dm now also has dementia, still living at home but with private carers. Anticipate that she will also need nursing home care soon, but physically she's fine and could live another decade or more.

I accept i will lose most or all of my inheritance. But it seems so unfair that if they had needed care due to a different illness, that this would be free. I think there should def be a cap on the amount an individual has to pay ie 75k, or else funding should at least be more equally allocated. Losing money because yoi have dementia rather than some other illness (one of the worst ways to die in my opinion) is doubly shitty.

@jasjas1973

Just today the Chancellor talked about his forthcoming budget and that in the short term it’s going to be about providing help and support but in the medium term there have to be tax increases

If thats correct, we are fucked, we need massive public spending, investment in skills and innovation, not more austerity and more inequality.

Where do you think the money for massive public spending is going to come from, if not tax increases?

It really enrages me that people who worked hard and saved all their lives have to spend all their children’s inheritance on care, when lazy bastards that have been on benefits all their lives get the same for free.

Surely people should have the choice over whether they want to live or die when they reach this stage of life? A lot of people would rather leave an inheritance to their family than spend it on care home fees when they have zero quality of life.

Dementia, in ALL the forms it takes, is the big issue the NHS cannot absorb. It's too big, it takes too long to kill most people, and it ultimately reduces its victims to the stage of not toilet trained toddlers.

@threatmatrix

It really enrages me that people who worked hard and saved all their lives have to spend all their children’s inheritance on care, when lazy bastards that have been on benefits all their lives get the same for free.

But it does sound like the former get the 2* care as they have no choices

@Sunbeam18

Surely people should have the choice over whether they want to live or die when they reach this stage of life? A lot of people would rather leave an inheritance to their family than spend it on care home fees when they have zero quality of life.

That leaves open the possibility of grasping families pressuring their relatives into voluntary euthanasia when they would really rather not.