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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we have to accept that we need to use savings to fund care in old age

807 replies

LastDuchessFerrara · 11/02/2021 09:23

My parents died before reaching old age but I'm now watching family and friends caring - in one form or another - for older relatives.

Many seem to be in denial about the fact that savings, pensions and, in some cases equity in their home, needs to be used to enable their relatives to continue to stay in their homes or go into care.

"But they've worked all their lives!" they cry in protest. Well, yes - and now that money needs to be used in their old age.

It's really focussed my mind on how any money I accumulate might not be spent on amazing holidays but paying for cleaners and carers.

I'd be interested in views but please can this not be a "boomer" bashing thread. I know plenty of impoverished old people and plenty of entitled non-boomers.

OP posts:
rawalpindithelabrador · 12/02/2021 21:56

@XingMing

Dementia, in ALL the forms it takes, is the big issue the NHS cannot absorb. It's too big, it takes too long to kill most people, and it ultimately reduces its victims to the stage of not toilet trained toddlers.
It's an inconvenient truth, but a truth nonetheless.
SciFiScream · 12/02/2021 22:03

This is a really interesting website.

www.payingforcare.org

For those that have some/enough they should plan and try and find balance.

I do like the sound of care ISAs

Some sort of incentivised saving scheme started by people maybe on their 40th birthday. £50 a month (pipe dream for many I know) would give you £18,000 by the time you were 70.

Huh. Something else I need to think about saving for.

I'm not expecting any inheritance (mum died was I was 8, Dad has nothing to leave).

I need to find legitimate ways of helping my DC when they need it and before any assets I have get wiped away paying for care.

rawalpindithelabrador · 12/02/2021 22:05

@threatmatrix

It really enrages me that people who worked hard and saved all their lives have to spend all their children’s inheritance on care, when lazy bastards that have been on benefits all their lives get the same for free.
It's their own money, not their children's inheritance Hmm. How many who are not disabled have actually been on benefits all their lives? I'd really like to see some real stats, but it's startlingly slim, especially now with UC. And I doubt they get the choice that comes with being able to pay.

This whole mentality of inheritance entitlement is the downfall of this entire nation.

XingMing · 12/02/2021 22:07

Let us please be blunt about the problem. It's my DMIL, who is self-funding and chipping in for other people's care too. But my sister-in-law who has never earned better than NMW (and who is nearly 60) is hoping there will be something to help her put a roof over her head in her retirement. And DSIL has bent over backwards to care for DMIL; she's done much more than I have, but I live six hours away.

XingMing · 12/02/2021 22:26

@SciFiScream, the only problem is that saving £18,000 would cover so little care that you might as well have spent the money having a good time. For an acute illness, it might help. but for anything chronic, as in in it won't kill you but it will make life hell for a long time, it will pay for the aspirin you take.

QueenOfTheDoubleWide · 12/02/2021 22:30

Unfortunately the older generations tend to vote more and any attempt to make them pay for their own care will result in a lost election so no party will tackle this issue

Uniqs · 12/02/2021 22:32

How did the posters wanting to live for free when they need care - so they can gift their children £ - vote in the BREXIT referendum? Curious.

XingMing · 12/02/2021 22:39

@QueenOfTheDoubleWide, I think you're wrong and right. The stupid and disengaged of all ages vote less, perhaps because they can't be bothered to stir themselves, so yes you get the opinion of those who do have opinions and think.

SciFiScream · 12/02/2021 22:42

@XingMing I know it's only a drop in the ocean, but it's better than nothing. Combined with my other plans it might pay off.

VinylDetective · 12/02/2021 22:43

@QueenOfTheDoubleWide

Unfortunately the older generations tend to vote more and any attempt to make them pay for their own care will result in a lost election so no party will tackle this issue
The older generation does, quite rightly, pay for its own care now. Why anyone in possession of a £1 million house thinks someone on minimum wage should pay for their care through their taxes is beyond me.
LindyLou2020 · 12/02/2021 23:08

witheringrowan - you are referring only to income tax.
There are many other taxes we have to pay which push our total tax contribution much higher than income tax.
For example:
VAT,
Council Tax,
Road Tax,
Insurance Premium Tax,
Stamp Duty,
Tax on savings, etc, etc....
And, less commonly, you have Inheritance Tax, Capital Gains Tax.....
I don't know what the answer is, but I don't think the public is willing to pay more tax, rightly or wrongly.

LindyLou2020 · 12/02/2021 23:47

@Callaird

Since April 2020 there is a cap on how much you will have to pay for your care. Once you have spent £72k the government has to pay for your care.

People with Terminal diseases that are short lived get free care as they won’t need long term care.

Others with diseases that live for a long time have to pay full care if they have over £23,350 in savings.

My mum had Motor Neurone Disease, had 3 hours a day, 7 days a week for a year. 24/7 care for 15 months and 2 live in carers for the last 4 months. We paid nothing.

My dad has dementia and Alzheimer’s, he’s struggling with it right now. He has 2 hours of care 7 days a week and we pay in full. Their savings and mums life insurance will go on his care, we will pay £50k and then we will get a loan from the council for the other £22k. If he is at home at the end and he hasn’t spent it all, we will get the remainder back, we will sell the house and pay back the loan from the sale of the house. If he goes into a home then we will rent out the house until he passes to pay the loan. We probably will keep renting it after he passes.

My parents Will and Deeds state that they are tenants in common. Mum’s half of the house goes to her children and her grandchildren. Dad has done the same. They cannot make us sell the house. I urge every couple to do this.

It's important to be aware that the £72,000 cap relates only to the cost of care, i.e the personal care you receive from the care home staff. The cap does not apply to the so-called "board and lodging" costs, i.e your room, meals provided, etc.
Mamanyt · 12/02/2021 23:55

@AlwaysCheddar

If I get a stage where I don’t have a clue what planet I’m on, id rather someone put a pillow over my face than pay thousands on a grotty nursing home.
I'm with you, and even have an exit plan. If I'm diagnosed with early Alzheimers, I'm out.
Juliancoped · 13/02/2021 00:06

@XingMing

Dementia, in ALL the forms it takes, is the big issue the NHS cannot absorb. It's too big, it takes too long to kill most people, and it ultimately reduces its victims to the stage of not toilet trained toddlers.
My mil is at this stage. It's frightening how helpless she is . I dont think people understand the reality of late stage dementia. And she has been like this a year so far. She would be a danger to herself left alone just like a toddler. There are so many similar to her in her home.
Celestine70 · 13/02/2021 00:30

Well they don't in Scotland so why should we here?

Cunninghamsarah · 13/02/2021 01:03

Both my parents had to go into a care home. They had Alzheimer’s at an advanced stage and we couldn’t look after them at home any longer. We tried our very best but it was no longer safe to keep them in their own home. We live in Scotland where most care homes are privately owned. Usually around 30% of rooms in these care homes are set aside for local authority. In Edinburgh the average cost of a care home is around £1,300 per week. What is shocking though is that the local authorities pay around £800 per week for the same room and the same care. The ‘self funders’ like my parents who had a house to sell basically subsidise the local authorities by paying almost double. This has been going on for years and is so wrong. I have no problem at all with people who can’t afford to pay. It’s right that we look after them. I really believe though that we should look after all our elderly just like the NHS treats people no matter what their circumstances are. We live in a rich country. Of course we can afford elderly care. We’ll all be old one day hopefully and we need to fund this through our taxes just like we do for the NHS. My parents spent over £200,000 on their care. These are people who paid into the system their whole lives but had the misfortune of contracting Alzheimer’s, a physical condition with no cure. It’s a devastating illness that affects the whole family. Eventually people with Alzheimer’s need 24 hour care. Care that they have to pay for themselves. We need a non profit national care service which provides excellent care with well trained staff being paid a fair wage. Private care homes will always exist, I’m sure. At least, though there would be a choice. Just like we have a choice about sending our kids to private school or accessing private health care. Right now, for people needing care homes, there is no choice. You pay into an unfair system where care home owners make vast profits. It’s been going on too long and it has to change.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 13/02/2021 01:04

@Celestine70

Well they don't in Scotland so why should we here?
There is still means-testing in the system in Scotland.
Localocal · 13/02/2021 01:28

Yanbu.

jasjas1973 · 13/02/2021 08:33

The older generation does, quite rightly, pay for its own care now. Why anyone in possession of a £1 million house thinks someone on minimum wage should pay for their care through their taxes is beyond me

Why?
A millionaire can use all the public services, inc the NHS/education etc you or i can, without making additional contributions.

In all likelihood, someone with a very expensive house and or savings has paid a lot more tax over their lives than we have.

In addition, good quality care should be available for all........ not based on wealth.
Remember most people will not have savings to fund care for one partner, whilst the other lives in the family home.

PinkyParrot · 13/02/2021 08:59

My DM paid for her care in Scotland but I suspect she was one of 3 paying in a home with 20 residents. The food etc was great initially but went down hill in quality. She didn't seem to notice though.
I remember someone celebrating her 100th birthday - I think she'd been in for over a decade - that's a lot of care and a lot of money.

countrygirl99 · 13/02/2021 09:06

@jasjas1973 how do we achieve that when the electorate consistently vote for lower taxes.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 13/02/2021 09:08

@jasjas1973, if there’s an owned family home but little or no savings, and one of the couple needs a care home, what may happen is that the costs are rolled up until the other either dies or goes into care.

There was a lovely old chap who came to visit his wife in my DM’s care home every day, and told me that this was the arrangement they had - their mortgage was paid off.

They had no children, so he was perfectly happy about it, esp. knowing that his wife was very well cared for.

He also told me that he’d done his very best to care for her (dementia) until he collapsed with sheer exhaustion - couldn’t even get to the door to let anyone in, or even to get to the phone. And his wife was too far gone either to be able to unlock the door or fetch the phone. The emergency services had to break in. 😱

WombatChocolate · 13/02/2021 09:26

Fully funded state care home places are never going to happen.

People won’t vote to pay the taxes required for it.

It really is as simple as that, as a bottom line.

Whether you feel people should have to pay taxes of some form for it or not, whether you feel it’s right that people sell their homes to pay for care or not, whether you understand the enormity of the tax burden of paying these costs or not, the reality is the same.....no government in the UK is going to be able to move to state funded care home places, whether they want to or not.

And given the massive massive debt being built up currently by government in managing the Covid crisis (rightly so) the possibility of moving in the direction of state funded care home places for all is an even more remote possibility now than ever.....and it would have never happened even without Covid.

jasjas1973 · 13/02/2021 09:27

[quote countrygirl99]@jasjas1973 how do we achieve that when the electorate consistently vote for lower taxes.[/quote]
As i ve said before, fully funded care would be between 4 to 8 billion a year.
The cuts to corporation tax (before that latest postponement) were £13 billion a year & its still more than adult social care reform would cost.
..and we still have some of the lowest corp rates in the world.

Its all about choices, as we all saw with the "protective arm" around care homes, the govt doesn't give a hoot about the elderly.