To think we have to accept that we need to use savings to fund care in old age

[LastDuchessFerrara]

My parents died before reaching old age but I'm now watching family and friends caring - in one form or another - for older relatives.

Many seem to be in denial about the fact that savings, pensions and, in some cases equity in their home, needs to be used to enable their relatives to continue to stay in their homes or go into care.

"But they've worked all their lives!" they cry in protest. Well, yes - and now that money needs to be used in their old age.

It's really focussed my mind on how any money I accumulate might not be spent on amazing holidays but paying for cleaners and carers.

I'd be interested in views but please can this not be a "boomer" bashing thread. I know plenty of impoverished old people and plenty of entitled non-boomers.

A person only pays fully for home care if they have over £23,250 in the bank. Lower than that and it’s a sliding scale of contributions. Property is not taken into account for home care, only care home residency. So basically you can live in a mansion worth millions, with very little cash and qualify for a county council funded package of care at home. However you could also live in social housing and having saved hard all your life, have to fully fund your own care. The lesson is to invest in property or an annuity type pension that may give you a yearly payment but is not accessible. Do not just sit on loads of savings unless you want to self fund home care.

Where has compassion gone. Children should look after their parents. End of story. So very selfish to hear that work comes first or we don’t get on. They are OUR family, parents or in-laws. Just do the decent thing and look after your own. Why leave it for someone else to feed, clean, dress, visit our ‘loved ones’
Come on - look after OUR own. It’s morally OUR duty.

It wouldn't be a hit though if it was only due when you sold up/died?
true...a hit to the ego when you dont have an estate to pass on to your progeny?
Thank you for agreeing with the other part tho😊

@Dnaltocs

Where has compassion gone. Children should look after their parents. End of story. So very selfish to hear that work comes first or we don’t get on. They are OUR family, parents or in-laws. Just do the decent thing and look after your own. Why leave it for someone else to feed, clean, dress, visit our ‘loved ones’ Come on - look after OUR own. It’s morally OUR duty.

Speaks someone with zero experience of what’s involved.

@Dnaltocs

Where has compassion gone. Children should look after their parents. End of story. So very selfish to hear that work comes first or we don’t get on. They are OUR family, parents or in-laws. Just do the decent thing and look after your own. Why leave it for someone else to feed, clean, dress, visit our ‘loved ones’ Come on - look after OUR own. It’s morally OUR duty.

it sounds so true and right doesnt it, but you know it's entirely unfeasible dont you It works in traditional cultures I know, but we dont have that kind of set up and most of us would not tolerate the downsides of a traditional culture

Where has compassion gone. Children should look after their parents. End of story. So very selfish to hear that work comes first or we don’t get on. They are OUR family, parents or in-laws. Just do the decent thing and look after your own. Why leave it for someone else to feed, clean, dress, visit our ‘loved ones’
Come on - look after OUR own. It’s morally OUR duty.

Right, so who pays the bills then? Work often comes first because people need to eat and keep a roof over their heads and pay for their own pensions. FFS.

People with advanced dementia often need 24 hour care, when is this family supposed to sleep?

Having children with strings attached is morally wrong.

@Dnaltocs

Where has compassion gone. Children should look after their parents. End of story. So very selfish to hear that work comes first or we don’t get on. They are OUR family, parents or in-laws. Just do the decent thing and look after your own. Why leave it for someone else to feed, clean, dress, visit our ‘loved ones’ Come on - look after OUR own. It’s morally OUR duty.

Have you ever had to take care of somebody with dementia?

It's not just minding little old Nanny sitting in her rocking chair while she knits.

Dementia patients can be unpredictable and even violent. It's a lot of work and will undoubtedly become 'womens work' putting women even further back in the workplace. Better they are somewhere here their needs can be fully and safely met.

I don't understand the mindset that our hones and money should not care for us in old age. Who else should pay for it? Families are no longer caring for their parents. They having savings then use it. It gives them choices that those with no savings gs get. A nicer care home and better care. We are saving with this in mind. We have had 4 parents go into home. Choices are shocking without private funding

I think there should be some sort of extra tax to ensure it isn’t a lottery whether you drop dead in your 70s/80s after leading an independant life or all your money and savings are used to pay for your care meaning you have no inheritance to leave.

It leads to inequalities in the next generation. Those that inherit and those that don’t. I see it already. Friends that are lower paid than us that have a better standard of living due to significant inheritance. But I think the gap will increasingly widen and it is down to sheer luck. When you can inherit hundreds of thousands of pounds, the equivalent of 20 years of wages or whatever or nothing. That is a big divider.

@Dnaltocs

Where has compassion gone. Children should look after their parents. End of story. So very selfish to hear that work comes first or we don’t get on. They are OUR family, parents or in-laws. Just do the decent thing and look after your own. Why leave it for someone else to feed, clean, dress, visit our ‘loved ones’ Come on - look after OUR own. It’s morally OUR duty.

No. I’m not looking after my mother full time ever. She hasn’t been a particularly good mother to me due to her own needs. She has always over stepped boundaries and if I’m honest I really dislike spending anymore than half a day with her. Not a chance in hell I’d have her living with me making my home how my childhood home was.

I’ve helped financially and practically a lot with a recent house move (in fact she did absolutely nothing). She does nothing to look after herself or take steps to make herself more mobile or able to look after herself. I’ll go as far as helping several times a week or doing some over nights to help my dad but I will never have her living with me full time.

I don’t expect my children to care for me in old age too. I’d be nice if they wanted to but I chose to have them and so they owe me no duty.

@Dnaltocs

Where has compassion gone. Children should look after their parents. End of story. So very selfish to hear that work comes first or we don’t get on. They are OUR family, parents or in-laws. Just do the decent thing and look after your own. Why leave it for someone else to feed, clean, dress, visit our ‘loved ones’ Come on - look after OUR own. It’s morally OUR duty.

That's fine until, like us you have 82yo MiIl severely disabled and unable to communicate after a stroke and 82yo FIl with several conditions including Parkinson's an hour away in one direction and unwilling to move and 83 yo mum with dementia and very frail 93 yo dad an hour away on ghd opposite direction and also unwilling to love. Both in tiny bungalows. Try looking after them and paying your own bills, then say children should look after their parents, end of story.

A friend shocked me by delaying putting an elderly relative into care when she suffered from dementia .She lived alone and really should not have been alone at night, it was only when she went wandering out at nighttime that social services became involved and insisted she needed full time care .The delay was because of the cost , the relative had substantial saving and naturally had wanted the money to go to her family, but it was only when forced they accepted she would have to use her savings for care . Appalling

Unwilling to move not love.

if the extended family has lots of young working age people and only a very few who live until they are elderly then it can be done
in modern societies we have the opposite, declining birth rates and increasing life expectancy (without a corresponding increase in 'health expectancy') mean situations where one working age couple in their 60s who may be starting to have health issues themselves has 4 elderly frail parents to contend with

I so so agree that euthanasia should be available for humans. My aunt worked hard for decades. Successful (head of dept) teacher in a grammar school. From about 2 years after she retired at 60, her first thought when waking was ‘I just want to die’. Her last thought before sleep was ‘I want to die’ . She had 2 major ops in her 90’s, both legs amputated, we were warned she’d probably not come through operations....but she did. She just wanted to die. Made looking afterher very difficult. Death was a brilliant and longed-for release for everyone concerned.

Yabu because euthanasia isn't an option.

From about 2 years after she retired at 60, her first thought when waking was ‘I just want to die’. Her last thought before sleep was ‘I want to die’ .*

That sounds like depression though, when she was only in her 60s. She should have got treatment for that - surely nobody thinks euthanasia is the answer in those circumstances?

And no, there is no responsibility to look after your parents.

I put my child on this planet to have a life, not spend 20+ years with her life on hold to look after me and try caring for her own. I have no expectation of that and what an awful expectation to put on another person.

I have/would/will care for my older/dying family as much as I possibly can if they don't want to go into care but i think that if people have money then they should be prepared to spend it on their own needs. If they don't want to do that, that's their choice but they shouldn't expect society to pay for them and to be able to hang onto their own money and assets

@Theoldwrinkley

I so so agree that euthanasia should be available for humans. My aunt worked hard for decades. Successful (head of dept) teacher in a grammar school. From about 2 years after she retired at 60, her first thought when waking was ‘I just want to die’. Her last thought before sleep was ‘I want to die’ . She had 2 major ops in her 90’s, both legs amputated, we were warned she’d probably not come through operations....but she did. She just wanted to die. Made looking afterher very difficult. Death was a brilliant and longed-for release for everyone concerned.

...or maybe better mental health care? Rather than just murdering everyone who is temporarily depressed.

I would bet money that the number of people who REALLY will commit suicide when they're old and batty is minute. If people REALLY meant it, they would make arrangements. Dignitas exists. Complicated though the dementia process is, I'm sure you could figure out a way to have a set of criteria met and then have someone book you a one way ticket to Switzerland with money you had saved. Yet somehow no one does. Because they don't want to think about it because they are afraid of death. Which if why they actually don't want to die rather than live with dementia.

I agree OP. We seem to have this mindset of 'we've worked all our lives for this' but why should we expect to be cared for in old age for free?! If you need care and have the resources to pay for it, you should pay for it - if that means you leave your relatives without inheritance, tough.

Does make me laugh how most of those who complain are the children of adults needing to go into care, don't want to pay for it but don't want to care for their parents either .

Fuckadoodledoooo

AlwaysCheddar
If I get a stage where I don’t have a clue what planet I’m on, id rather someone put a pillow over my face than pay thousands on a grotty nursing home.
My grandmother was the same. She wanted what her and my grandad worked for to go to their children.

She took her own life after being diagnosed with dementia, when she thought she was getting bad enough. She didn't want to live a life where people cared for her.

I'm glad she did. I work in care. It's no life.

I admire your Grandmother and you. Agree with your viewpoint. Hugs x

I don't see how people can't see how unjust it is that some pay for care and some do not. I pay for prescriptions, dental care etc. Im taxed so pay into NHS, education etc.

There are many who get free prescriptions, free dental care, subsidised rent, benefits, why then do they get free care when it might cost others tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds. Its not ok.

We need to work on improved responsibility for health so fewer need care homes. Dementia aside, many strokes,heart attacks, fractured hips, frailty comes from lack of health. I have ladies at my yoga class in their 80s who are fit and string as they eat well and exercise. My next door neighbour farms 30 acres in his 80s.
Some of it is good luck, much is self care.

Secondly we need to reduce working age benefits. I know it's an unpopular opinion and many will say I believe the stereotypes but actually there are many people that don't work that could. Very few people can't find a single job they can fo. There are many with kids they can't afford that rely on the state. I would rather put more into elderly care than give it to people who don't work because of their own lifestyle choice.

We seem to have this mindset of 'we've worked all our lives for this' but why should we expect to be cared for in old age for free?! hmm If you need care and have the resources to pay for it, you should pay for it - if that means you leave your relatives without inheritance, tough

Its just another healthcare need, do you think that those with MH issues should pay for their care in a secure unit?

We all pay taxes and in a country with our wealth, i find it incredible that people think that this aspect of care should be funded by the individual and that those who can't, get sub standard care.

As i've said earlier, the amounts required are small.

We need to work on improved responsibility for health so fewer need care homes

Virtually every care home resident has dementia. No amount of health care prevents fractures; bones become brittle with age and a fall breaks them.

As for reducing working age benefits - they’re not enough to live on as it is. If you think they are, give it a go and see how you get on. Yes, you do believe the stereotypes. Maybe try volunteering at a food bank and get your eyes opened.