Whilst Biden and Harris are busy doing their jobs, there's an Impeachment Hearing going on... (#125)

[Roussette]

Previous thread...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4145424-Moving-on-its-Biden-Harris-Administration-time-124?msgid=104553726#104553726

Raskin closing by posing questions to Trump's legal defense:
-"Why did President Trump not tell his supporters to stop the attack on the Capitol as soon as he learned of them?"
-"Why did President Trump do nothing to stop the attack for at least two hours after the attack began?"

Raskin (cont.): "Senators, America, we need to exercise our common sense about what happened. Let's not get caught up in a lot of outlandish lawyers' theories here. Exercise your common sense about what just took place in our country...

"Good luck in your deliberations."

Sahil Kapur @sahilkapur

ME: Senator, was there anything you heard that changed your mind?

LINDSEY GRAHAM: Nope

Away from the Senate hearing

thehill.com/policy/national-security/538406-biden-terminates-trump-emergency-order-used-to-construct-border-wall

President Biden has rescinded the emergency order used by former President Trump to justify construction of the border wall, the White House announced Thursday.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-golf-impeachment-trial-videos-b1801183.html

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/10/us-coronavirus-response-donald-trump-health-policy

'The US could have averted 40% of the deaths from Covid-19, had the country’s death rates corresponded with the rates in other high-income G7 countries, according to a Lancet commission tasked with assessing Donald Trump’s health policy record.

Almost 470,000 Americans have died from the coronavirus so far, with the number widely expected to go above half a million in the next few weeks. At the same time some 27 million people in the US have been infected. Both figures are by far the highest in the world.'

Some things never change:

www.thelily.com/southern-baptist-leaders-called-kamala-harris-a-jezebel-thats-not-just-insulting-its-dangerous-experts-say/?utm_campaign=wp_lily_lines&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_lily

@Roussette

This is a stain on the GOP that they will never live down. Not. Ever

Good to hear and quite right.

“If you think this is not impeachable, what is? What would be?” Raskin said. “If you don’t find this a high crime and misdemeanor today, you have set a new, terrible standard for presidential misconduct in the United States of America.”

They're going to be as full of excuses as Carter has pills. And the Trumpies will swallow them hook, line, and sinker. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/there-is-no-defenseonly-complicity/617996/

My prediction for the Trump defence is a lot of 'Whataboutery "

Which, as I know from mumsnet, is the last thing you do when you're losing the arguement.

Oh yes Across.
I almost cannot bear to hear the absolute BS they will wheel out tomorrow but I've got this far, and it is part of history...

@minou123

If I commit a crime and Raskin is the prosecutor, I think I'll cry, pee my pants and just admit guilt.

you might as well give up before the trial starts & just skip to the verdict!

It seems the defence are not planning to use much of the allotted time. Suspect there won't be even a token attempt to defend the charges - they don't care, they know the vote will be to acquit. Simple contempt for any legal process.

Another reason to admire Rep.Raskin:

Norman Ornstein
@NormOrnstein
·
3h
When I lost my son, I was in a fog for weeks, nearly paralyzed with grief. To imagine that @RepRaskin
has not just gotten up every day, but has done this master class in constitutional law, philosophy, logic, patriotism & more with eloquence, force, passion...My God. What a hero.

And in Biden news, also on Twitter, reported, the first time I've seen the current President criticise Trump directly:

Kyle Griffin
@kylegriffin1
·
2h
President Biden: "My predecessor, to be very blunt about it, did not do his job ... He didn't order enough vaccines. He didn't mobilize enough people to administer the shots. He didn't set up federal vaccine centers."

I imagine President Biden is absolutely furious at what Trump didn't do with regard to vaccines. He has an uphill struggle to try and get it in hand. Whilst covid was growing and there was no tangible vaccine plan, Trump spent the lame duck period ignoring Covid totally. Never mentioned it, it was like it wasn't happening.
Atrocious

twitter.com/Angry_Staffer/status/1360008086140973056

How can this happen? Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz and Mike Lee meet privately with Trump's lawyers.
Is this ethical or indeed legal?

How can this happen? Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz and Mike Lee meet privately with Trump's lawyers.
Is this ethical or indeed legal?

It's all a bit Lewis Carroll isn't it?

"Let the jury consider their verdict," the King said, for about the twentieth time that day.
"No, no!" said the Queen. "Sentence first–verdict afterward."

And all a bit "Catch 22" as well.

If senators believe that the trial is unconstitutional, then they have no power to vote on the ultimate verdict. So they should put their money where their mouth is and recuse. If they cast a vote at all, they are acknowledging the trial’s jurisdiction.

I imagine President Biden is absolutely furious at what Trump didn't do with regard to vaccines. He has an uphill struggle to try and get it in hand. Whilst covid was growing and there was no tangible vaccine plan, Trump spent the lame duck period ignoring Covid totally. Never mentioned it, it was like it wasn't happening.
Atrocious

Indeed. Hardly surprising that he didn't care about the safety of the police officers defending the Capitol against his mob, if he didn't care about what's going to be at least half a million deaths from Covid, is it? Disgraceful.

@minou123

My prediction for the Trump defence is a lot of 'Whataboutery "

Which, as I know from mumsnet, is the last thing you do when you're losing the arguement.

The problem is that Trumps defence could just stand up and fart, and the republicans would still side with them. They don't have to put in any effort at all unfortunately.

@TheNorthWestPawsage

And all a bit "Catch 22" as well.

If senators believe that the trial is unconstitutional, then they have no power to vote on the ultimate verdict. So they should put their money where their mouth is and recuse. If they cast a vote at all, they are acknowledging the trial’s jurisdiction.

There's something seriously wrong with a system which lets this happen. As it's unprecedented, I think unprecedented steps should be taken to prevent those Senators disrespecting the House and who were amongst those who encouraged the riot themselves, as well as encouraging the belief that the election had been stolen when it clearly hadn't been (surely by the same token, Trump "stole" the election from Hillary Clinton, in any case?). They should be put on trial somehow and their right to vote in this impeachment should be taken away from them.

Yet again, I am spitting tacks at the way Trump and his ghastly mates in the GOP are manipulating the country and its democracy.

And I come back to, Trump on his own is a man who can't work out what to do with an umbrella at a doorway.

We can see so clearly that it is the other hopeful authoritarians who view him as their opportunity, who are making this happen.

MedusasBadHairDay

The problem is that Trumps defence could just stand up and fart, and the republicans would still side with them. They don't have to put in any effort at all unfortunately.

From the sounds of it, thats exactly what they will do.
Farting might be the highlight

In all seriousness, my point of view,
I'm more focused on wider public opinion and how this trial will impact the Republicans popularity after the trial.
While there will be some die hard Rebulicans who will never change thier vote, I think this may influence others and will give them pause for thought

You might like David Allen Green's take on it in his blog today

davidallengreen.com/2021/02/the-jeremy-corbyn-test-or-the-hillary-clinton-test-how-to-uphold-constitutionalism-in-an-age-of-hyper-partisanship/

Simple test for Republican senators - if Hillary Clinton had done what Donald Trump did would you be voting to convict?

If yes - do it.

If Hillary Clinton had done nothing they'd vote to convict. That is the problem. They don't vote based on evidence, but politics and their own self interest. Not sure they are sufficiently astute to understand what's best for their own interest, though.

They should be put on trial somehow and their right to vote in this impeachment should be taken away from them.

Perhaps the Democrats should have done that before impeaching 45, but the result would have been the same.

DuncinToffee

*Donald Trump Warns Supporters Could Riot if He Doesn't Get GOP Nomination

Donald Trump warned on Wednesday that his supporters would respond with “riots” if he fails to secure the nomination at July’s convention in Cleveland.

“I think you’d have riots,” Trump told CNN on Wednesday. “I think you’d have riots. I’m representing a tremendous many, many millions of people.*

Surely this is a clue for the Republicans of what is to come, when they let Trump get away with it, leaving him free to run for President again?

If they support him now, he will have them over a barrel when it comes to choosing their candidate for 2024.

This impeachment is their chance to be free of him once and for all. Why aren't they taking it?!