Husband wanting to quit job

[Dreamylemon]

My DH has a relatively well paid, stable job which he has done for the last 10 years. He has had periods where he hates it (busy periods) and other times over summer where it's quieter and he is fine. It allows him to work from home and be flexible, however he works very long hours. He has made no attempt to change the way he works with his long hours or address stress. He is a bit a martyr and people pleaser and I am often shocked at how much he does for other people ( which isn't part of his job) it took him 7 years for the qualifications to get this job during that time I supported him finiacially.

He is now saying he will quit his job and learn coding in September and get a new job. He is basing this in his friends ( who work in jobs around IT) saying he will find a job easily and praising a website he made about 15 years ago.

I said I need to hear more information about what jobs are out There, what qualifications need etc salary before he makes this decision and we need to look at finiances ( I work PT) He doesn't have this information. He is very academically clever but has no drive or direction and it feels like he quits jobs to chase another he doesn't gave enough info on.

I know AINBU in insisting he actually has a plan before quitting a stable job in the middle of a pandemic but how the hell do I get him to listen?! I want to scream!!

I've said I will support him - life is too short to stick out a miserable job - but only with a clear plan

@Dreamylemon, I have one of these. My OH always thinks some other job will be better - the grass is always greener on the other side. I finally had to just stop entering into discussions like this. I've highlighted your words above, because that's what your DH wants: he wants you to enter into his plan and support it. I think you need to step away and just say things like 'it's up to you'. Or 'All I know is that it's very hard to get a job at the moment, but if you want to change, then that's your thing'. IE, don't prohibit him from changing (not that you could) or get upset about it, but also don't enter into the spirit of it. You can say that change of this kind stresses you out and it's up to him.

It's also a really good idea to suggest that he should do an online coding class or some kind of evening or summer course before quitting his job.

I found that when I did this, rather than get caught up in the heat and anxiety of it, my OH tended to back off from many (not all!) of his job change schemes. And when I got him to try out the new field, through a short course or whatever, then surprise surprise it didn't turn out to be all that he had hoped.

In academia, there is a pressure to move up and get more money (grants) and publish more and do more all the time. It's fairly relentless and just sitting still, ticking over with your teaching and the odd paper, isn't a possibility from lecturer level up. I don't know what his institution is like, but it may be they are really badly managed in the pandemic, putting lots of pressure on staff, ours has been quite good and I feel well supported, but reading the academic boards here, it sounds like a nightmare in a lot of places.

It also sounds like he's really isolated again due to the pandemic. I've thought of quitting, lots of lectures have thought of quitting, there's more students, they are more distressed than usual, it's harder to teach as you have to use Zoom/do videos, it's just not relaxing and it never was at the best of times.

I wouldn't say jumping off in the middle of a pandemic is a good idea, it takes time to retrain and then get a foot in the door, and he won't have the type of CV that immediately attracts employers from the get go.

I suppose the question is can he continue? If he's about to have a nervous breakdown and time off sick, them that's different than if he's fed up and hates his job (like all of us right now) and fancies a change.

@tentimesaday i have used this tactic in the past of ignoring and like you say he has not pushed forward with plans.

This time I think im worried because he is feeling down- like the rest of us are and it's a much more precarious time to take a risk

@SignsofSpring he us not publishing much and well aware of that but equally not getting loads of pressure. He has lost the parts of his job he liked- office banter and in- person lecturing and is not getting out the house at all. I work in the nhs so I am out the house and see other humans

I work for a uni and considered a career change. Saw a financial advisor and If I sit where I am doing nothing more in my career ever (so worst case scenario) I can retire at 55 and maintain our current lifestyle. I’m looking at volunteering in other sectors and retraining in my 50’s. You might want to look at the pension as if he’s got in early he’ll have a decent pig that he’d be silly to walk away from (despite the unions complaining they’re diminished they’re still far better than private sector)

Absurd. He needs to learn coding outside of his current job, what language is he planning on learning? He should take courses and make sure he is very proficient. He will only be able to go in as a junior, no matter his age. Yes, long-term software development is good pay, but not that great until you have the experience.

Can’t he learn in his free time? Maybe not doing extra work he doesn’t need to?? Maybe sit and go through finances and say I fully support you want to make this change , however, we do need to eat whilst you are doing it?....

I sympathise. My DH has wanted to be an academic since he was an undergrad. Now that he is an academic, he doesn't enjoy it at all. He's now considering a career change, and wants to train as a secondary school teacher. To be honest, I think he's great at interacting with students, but I can imagine he'll end up disliking that job as much as his current one. He sounds similar to your husband, little drive and perhaps a general disillusionment with the world of work.

Would his work allow him to take an unpaid career break? I know my university does, though one has to apply and it's not guaranteed applications will be approved. Of course you'd have to be able to afford a year without income, but at least it might give him some time to retrain while leaving open the option to return to his current job if things don't work out.

@EggBobbin financial advisor is a good call. Looking at black and white figures I think would be a shock for him. He has come from a background he hasn't had to worry about money. I don't.

Anyone that is a lecturer are there any tips in managing his workload? I'm coming from a different job role but I still see he can put in boundaries to protect his time,speak to his boss about his workload etc?

@DreamyLemon he will probably have some sort of agreed contribution or workload model but at the moment lecturers are in the hell phase of semester 1 marking and semester 2 prep and quite possibly prepping for online and f2f delivery as it's all uncertain. Student support issues are through the roof and if he has any leadership or additional responsibilities then that will all be magnified.

All that being said, he needs to manage his time effectively and refer students to support services proactively. Use the professional team properly and not be a martyr. If he's struggling with digital delivery then he'll not manage development environments (working in Agile sprints and highly accountable as time is money).

Depending on his field research may not be happening to any great extent but perhaps he's stressed about the REF as a result. If he likes teaching and working with students then he could try to shift to a T only contract or if he can't hack the teaching side then an R contract (don't do this unless he's good at getting grant funding as you need to bring in the money)

@CarrotVan thank you for your advice.

He is very slow and perfectionist in nature which mean he struggles with keeping pace with marking and corrects grammar and spelling on submitted work feedback which I'm pretty sure isn't expected at university level ( correct me if I'm wrong). He seems to think he will have more time in coding but he hasn't experienced the private sector 'time is money' style pressure.

He certainly feels undervalued in his current job with very little research. I hear about his colleagues who from the outside appear to be playing the game far more successfully than him - publishing, promoting themselves in niche areas. He is floundering....

It’s tough, do you have savings/back-up for him not working for a bit?

Could he take a sabbatical? A year off? So the job is there to come back to if the new career does not work out?

I am in software (sideways career move) and it’s tough and a lot of competition from clever software engineers from India.

Also, it’s not stress free and hours have to be billable

It’s interesting but not easy. Does he want to become a web designer? A software engineer? Work for a company or free lance?

Yep. He needs to refer students to the library/skills centre/student support. All he should do is note that proof reading is required.

If he can’t manage in academia he’ll drown in the private sector. He’d probably struggle in the professional services at his uni.

Whilst the pressures are real higher education is still a fairly gilded cage - decent money, good pension, good progression, limited accountability

Being a lecturer these days is pretty fast paced, even on the teaching side. More students, more to mark, I wouldn't begin to correct spelling or grammar, that's not his job, there are study skills/library courses and also help for students with dyslexia and so on. He's sweating the small stuff and probably totally overwhelmed by it. I am finding the term hardgoing this year, so is everyone I know, I don't know many people who haven't thought at one point or another about jumping ship, although mine only lasted a few days.

Could he have a frank chat with his line manager/head of department about the fact he's struggling. It may be related to the pandemic and he may be a bit depressed, coupled with a very large workload, lots of students in distress and uncertainty, it feels like too much. He could work on signposting students elsewhere but fundamentally he may be better in research, my husband was similar, the amount of marking/supervising PhDs is really large now and unless you are quite fast and don't get too fussed about what you are doing you could get bogged down and not make it out.

More talking is required I think to find out why he thinks this would be a good move, why he wants to leave academia- I don't think working in IT will be easier for him at all if he struggles with perfectionism and tight deadlines, it may even be worse. Is this just a pandemic thing? Jumping ship now sounds really risky especially when he doesn't know if he even likes that type of work.

Seems to me like he could return to lecturing if coding doesn't work out.

Real challenge is can you afford to miss his income for 8-18 months?

Perfectionism doesn't go well with coding success, sorry.

Could you say what subject his PhD is in, or what kind of skills he can put on his cv?

@CarrotVan

Yep. He needs to refer students to the library/skills centre/student support. All he should do is note that proof reading is required.

If he can’t manage in academia he’ll drown in the private sector. He’d probably struggle in the professional services at his uni.

Whilst the pressures are real higher education is still a fairly gilded cage - decent money, good pension, good progression, limited accountability

This is utter nonsense. I quit academia 18 months ago and still am regularly shocked by just how much less is expected of me for the same money in my new job. The first time my boss told me that I wasn't expected to work at the weekend I was genuinely confused. The improvement in my mental health and mood has been remarkable. I do think that academics sometimes undervalue the positives to academia, but it absolutely isn't an easy job. No one I know who has left academia would agree with you that if you struggle in academia you'll find it worse elsewhere - none of them have.

Seems to me like he could return to lecturing if coding doesn't work out.

Depending on his field, this is probably unrealistic - in anything where the competition for lecturing posts is fierce (which is a lot of them) a couple of years with no research will stop you getting interviews let alone jobs.

If he can’t manage in academia he’ll drown in the private sector. He’d probably struggle in the professional services at his uni.

This.

He clearly doesn't understand the field he's wanting to go into, at the beginning it's a very solitary and time-pressured job, with lots of stuff to do to a very tight timescale and very little interaction. Given that interaction is the bit he enjoys about his current role he'd be an eejit to move to coding.

Sounds like he's miserable about lockdown and hoping a change will make it all better. Sadly, it won't, it'll be worse for him I suspect given your description.

@Dreamylemon

I wouldn't be supporting anyone who gave up their job without having another one to go to. It would be a dealbreaker for me. It's highly irresponsible, and incredibly selfish.

And 'coding'... ? Why does he think this will be any less stressful than his current career? As a few people have said, the grass is rarely greener on the other side.

Like some others have said, I also know/have known quite a few people like this... Always wanting the next best thing, the next best gadget, a better car, a better mobile phone, a better/bigger house, a better TV, a better stereo, and always a better job etc etc etc......

And in some cases, they have spent a substantial amount of family money, (and even got the family in debt,) with all sorts of daft 'new ventures...'

And every single person I have ever known, who is like this, is a MAN. Always a man. Most women seem fairly happy with what they have, and even those who aren't, will try and better themselves without affecting anyone else. But men seem to always want more, bigger, better, newer; and to hell with everyone else, and how they might be affected by it.

As I say, I know/have known a few men like this, and I seriously pity the women who have to put up with them. I have seen women at their wits end with men like this, and trying to juggle the finances to pay for everything, or support his new venture, and/or constant 'career' changes...

I simply couldn't be doing with this. I'd be out of that relationship!

@ThenCatoJumpedOut he couldn't tell you what area he wants to go into. If it was me thinking of a career move I would want every detail before making the jump. I also think the wfh element means jobs can be outsourced easier like you say - lots of global competition

I agree that his plan doesn't seem particularly thought out or realistic - though I suspect that's in part due to desperation - but I think it's unfair to paint him as some sort of flake or serial job hopper. He's been doing this for 10 years, and he probably committed to it by starting his PhD when he was 21 - is it really not allowed to decide that actually you don't want to do what you wanted to do as an 21 year old for the rest of your life, 13-14 years later?

@SignsofSpring thsts it - he sweats the small stuff and prides himself of detail and things being perfect. Very different the way I work. We have talked about this before and he has said he won't drop his standards and do what he considers 'half a job'. The problem is no job gives you the time to give attention to detail he wants. 'Good enough' is what they pay you for - if that!

I've said he needs to speak to his boss but he making excuses and saying there is nothing that can be done.

Answering a couple more questions

His main work is in statistics.

I agree he hasn't published much at all - I think he would struggle to get an interview and he must know this despite his aparent lack of insight.

Career break/ part time are options he would dismiss but a good safety net I think. We could manage without his income but I think it would be a disaster and sent his self esteem - but much better than no job at the end.

It isn't possible to mark to the same high standard you did when you had 20 students in a class, and now you have 100. You don't even need to because students say they love feedback, but when we used to have a system for them picking it up (physically), more than half never used to bother once they had the grade. They need a few succinct improvement points, not long winded marking of spelling and grammar (which is probably not even allowed if the student has dyslexia).

He probably just isn't a good fit for the modern academy, and his approach would also kill him in teaching at secondary level as in both instances you need to be able to work quickly and churn the stuff out. In academia you also have the pressure of that not being the main part of the job which is of course to do research, write and get grants!

I don't think a career change should be out of the question, the question is how can you manage financially? I would suggest if he really wants to quit, that he think about tutoring privately (to uni students, to secondary students) in the meantime whilst he is retraining. I do think a different sector might suit him, I think lecturing is a fab job but the old days of having rather particular and slow lecturers bumbling about is not possible anymore (I know it's a crass stereotype but we did have those amongst us when I first arrived), it's basically a business and a demanding one now, with a lot of presentation skills needed. Perhaps being his own boss or working in a specialist field (is his PhD related to the computing he wants to do) might suit him better.