To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

@tttigress - if people are attending worship purely for financial gain then is that faith? What happens when they have had the material things they want - say their child has left the lovely school - they will probably leave, or a best become very irregular attendees.

If religious are offering help with strings attached then they are not following the teachings of their religion - or at least not the religions I am familiar with.

@tttigress - you know of NO churches offering support to younger people? I can assure many many are.

@UrAWizHarry

As populations become more educated religious faith naturally decreases as people realise it's a load of old bollocks.

You might find this interesting..go to 3 minutes in. John Lennox is professor emeritus from Cambridge university. A very interesting discussion I think.....

This is true, but there can be a practical benefit to attending a mosque (financial or other practical support).

So you’re saying that lifelong churchgoer Doris, aged 72, should be handing over half her pension to contribute towards a house deposit for somebody who’s turned up at the Sunday morning service for a month, having heard that the congregation of St John’s are giving away money to new attendees?

That’s going to end well, isn’t it?

But the church is offering nothing (especially to younger people which it needs)

Well, that’s a matter of opinion. Which church do you attend? How do you know that it offers nothing to all the other people attending?

Relies on indoctrination and preying on people's vulnerabilities, but they've less scope to do that now and people have more access to information to make their own informed choices.

I grew up going to c of e church although my parents rarely spoke about church/religion at home, and until several years ago went to a free church. But I found some of the teaching difficult and hard to relate it to 21st century life, and disagreed with various views they held on sexuality and mens/womens roles within the church , and within the home, so I stopped going.
I actually miss the smaller group meetings with a group of women, all different ages, at different life stages that I dont think i would have met elsewhere. I enjoyed their friendship and valued most of their advice, although I still keep in touch with several friends from there.
Aside from religious teachings which are widely disparaged, historically there has been a charitable aspect to most religions. Now of course there are more and more secular and non religious charities but I still think that the charitable aspect of religion rather than the actual beliefs is probably more valuable to society. After the Grenfell Tower fire, a local mosque provided food and shelter for people and Sikh temples were also some of the first to respond. There were Sikh temples arranging food drop offs to the thousands of Lorry drivers stuck at Dover late last year etc. This, I feel has more impact than than people on street corners with loud hailers shouting about sinners, and salvation.

@Iamthewombat

This is true, but there can be a practical benefit to attending a mosque (financial or other practical support).

So you’re saying that lifelong churchgoer Doris, aged 72, should be handing over half her pension to contribute towards a house deposit for somebody who’s turned up at the Sunday morning service for a month, having heard that the congregation of St John’s are giving away money to new attendees?

That’s going to end well, isn’t it?

But the church is offering nothing (especially to younger people which it needs)

Well, that’s a matter of opinion. Which church do you attend? How do you know that it offers nothing to all the other people attending?

You and your family would have had to attend for years to get a financial benefit in the thousands, and the system is designed so that you bring your children into the mosque and they are also insentivised to stay, so obviously that is a reason why Islam is growing and Christianity isn't.

In the example of Doris, who is going to help her if there are no young people in the church? Maybe this brings in a wider societal question about boomers hording wealth.

Congregation at my own parish church has been growing, OP, and the church of Scotland has had women priests for over 50 years, and even a couple of female Moderators (national leader of the church assembly), so accusations by PPs of misogyny don’t apply.
Our online services have been viewed by people outwith our own parish as well.
The church is one of the biggest providers of social care/charity/ministry to the disadvantaged in the country. And dismissing Christians as believers in “sky fairies” is an insult to the millions of us (including me) who have direct personal experience of the presence of God.

I do think, like any ‘institution’ religion goes through a rise and fall cycle.

There is a difference between religion and spirituality. One is outside in (religion) and the other is inside out (spirituality).

What no one had ever been able to quash yet is people’s need to look for help outside of themselves. This is the foundation of spirituality.

Most of the time people agree love is better than hate etc and most religions are looking towards how do you practically apply that principle with external adherence to rules which can quickly descend to piety - eg going through the motions and then rightly perceived as hypocrisy.

A lot of religious institutions do a large amount of social good in our country. Regardless of numbers ‘attending’ on a Sunday (or other allotted holy day).

I don’t think spirituality can ever decline because it is within us.

Dd was doing her RE homework the other day. She kept going on about quoting from a ‘source of wisdom’

Eventually l asked her what a ‘source of wisdom’ was. She replied it’s a book like the Bible or Quoran.

I said ‘oh you mean a fairy tale?’

Still haven’t got over a ‘source of wisdom’ ....

In the example of Doris, who is going to help her if there are no young people in the church?

So you think that churches should bribe younger people in, with contributions towards house deposits etc., so that those same younger people will look after elderly members of the congregation?

How will you enforce that?

Maybe this brings in a wider societal question about boomers hording wealth.

I’ll fill my bingo card soon. So churches are responsible for stopping ‘boomers’ from hording (sic) wealth now?

Keep them coming!

But the church is offering nothing
@tttigress

I don't know where you live, but in my area there are churches running food banks, soup kitchens, baby banks (i.e. nappies, equipment), school uniform handouts, shopping for the vulnerable, youth groups (online atm), talks and philosophy groups, etc etc. There are also mosques, gurdwaras and temples offering the same- all offered to all comers, regardless of background/religion etc.

There is a church in the high street near me that offers debt counselling and money advice. I'm pretty sure it's not religious advice and you dont need to be a member of the church to access it.

Part of it will be because some people who attended only did because it was the done thing so didn't have faith. The other part will be that people are transferring their beliefs elsewhere like crystal healing, reiki, opening their chakras, healing sessions with the goddesses.

I've seen a surge locally of self styled life coaches and counsellors, but when you speak to them it becomes clear it's not actually any of form of trained counselling. It's nothing more than crystal healing 'you do you', girl power godess stuff.b

Because god doesn't exist

@KingsHeathen

But the church is offering nothing *@tttigress*

I don't know where you live, but in my area there are churches running food banks, soup kitchens, baby banks (i.e. nappies, equipment), school uniform handouts, shopping for the vulnerable, youth groups (online atm), talks and philosophy groups, etc etc. There are also mosques, gurdwaras and temples offering the same- all offered to all comers, regardless of background/religion etc.

Maybe nothing was not the right word, but .....

There will be mosques this Friday offering young struggling couples £10,000 to help buy a house, especially if you are from a less well off background that is a life changing experience that's makes you love the mosque and tell everyone you love the mosque, and makes you want to get everyone you know to attend the mosque.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

The bible is a collection of 66 different books though, written by numerous people over thousands of years.

Many are historical and give a fascinating insight into those times (plus there are letters, songs, poems, stories etc.)

Why is this one a 'fairytale'?

Do you think all history books are?
Have you read any of it?

I would say that faith is more important that "religion". The two are different, can be different.
I would also say to anyone mocking, often people mock what they are worried about. It is often the people who condemn homosexuality who are downright scared of it and perhaps this is also the case, or a bad experience.

Many people have bad experiences with churches (full of flawed humans like any other large group!). I don't know anyone with a personal faith who has had a bad experience with God.

Faith is scientifically proven to be good for your immunity because praying lowers stress, which in turn lowers your cortisol levels that attack your immunity. Try praying and keep an open mind.

@Mamagotskills

Because it’s all bollocks and people are increasingly more well informed?

This 100%. And it's proven to be bollocks too.

Religion cannot now be used to control the population with fear.

Yes I’ve read bits of the bible. But there’s little truth in it. Just because it’s old or has lots of bits in it doesn’t make it a ‘source of wisdom’

It might make it an interesting take on history and a glimpse into the life and times of that era, but the ‘source of wisdom’ thing isn’t referring to that, it’s referring to God stuff. And l don’t believe in God stuff. So that isn’t wisdom to me.

The history bit is interesting, but that makes it a source . It’s not the source I’m bothered about. It’s the ‘wisdom’ that irks me.

Because if God is all powerful, why doesn't he stop horrible things happening to innocent people?

I mean it makes it a source of history. But not wisdom.

Prove that God doesn't exist!

Prove that God doesn't exist!

The onus is on you to prove god does exist. You can't prove a negative after all.