To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

Petrarkian.

Thinking about it people have found other things, equally dysfunctional or functional depending. 'Green living' is one - rules to follow, judging self and others, sins and redemption.

Is it?

There are many religions being followed in the UK - Christianity, Islam, Hinduism being the three with the largest following. There is a decline in church attendance is some Christian denominations - Cof E and RC in particular, but an increase in others such as the house church movements. Other religions are seeing a rise in attendance in places of worship.

In addition, going to a place of worship is not the only indication of being religious. Many people are religious, believe in the teachings of a religion, but do not belong to the faith in an organised way. they follow their path in an individual way, at home.

I would say that many in the UK are religious, but in a different way. I will be interested to see what happens when the current crisis is over, or at least as near to over that will allow for religious gatherings. Will people be searching for that sense of community or reassurrence and will attendance in places of worship rise? Or will people realise they managed without during lockdown, and not return?

I think people who dismiss religion as superstitious nonsense and say it has not place in the modern world, or that religion is dying are overstating their case. Religiousness is very hard to define. For some people religion is something they turn to in their most desperate need. For some it is not something they wear on their sleeve.

Religious beliefs and teachings have shaped our history, culture, architecture, art, ethics, politics and so much more - sometimes for good, sometimes or bad. Religion, in my opinion, does and will continue to, be an important part of British life.

I wonder if some of it is because most people won't want to do something just because their parents are doing it.

That's totally it in my case.

My parents married in a church and went as children and Christmas/Easter etc. But that's because their parents (WWII generation) were the typical god fearing brits of their era.

Once my parents were adults they didn't go at all apart from other peoples weddings etc. So I only went for those occasions or school visits.

There wasn't any discussion of God or religion in my house growing up. If you ask my parents about their belief they'll say they "believe in something" but it's because they're too superstitious to say they dont.

Once you get to my and DH generation (so another removed from god fearing parents) we have no problems not believing in a god and saying we have no religion. It plays no part in our lives at all.

I assume our DC will grow up feeling the same, they're welcome to make up their own minds just as we have. As long as they're kind to others then I'm happy.

There is plenty of religion here in Glastonbury, just not the conventional kind

I personally think that churches don't believe in themselves any more, for example churches were more than happy to close in the pandemic because they didn't not consider themselves important. If you don't consider yourself to be important, why should anyone else consider you to be important?

Also, churches aren't offering a support system to their congratulation, if you young people thought they were going to get get something out if the church (for example a collection for a house deposit which is common in mosques) they would attend.

I really blame both the Catholic church and church of England leadership for not believing in themselves and not providing practical solutions for their congratulations.

it's pretend and optional

Involvement with child abuse from the church puts a lot of people off
Churches are very insular and cliquey - my lovely MIL is always wondering (well before covid) why she isn’t invited back for coffee to the ‘inner circle’s’ house. They would have craft fairs to raise money and only certain people would be allowed to contribute. It’s like high school but with old ladies (and some not so old!!) who can be ‘the best church goers’. Sometimes the vicar will pop round for a chat with some of them, they must be touched by God!! We took her to another local church (I would not attend normally I just went with her once to get her going) and it was exactly the same. No one said hello, how are you, nothing. Same people hovering about , ‘key holders’ of the church hall busybodying around everyone!

There’s always the central families in church communities that run the show. Similar to village associations where two families will take over the running of things.

Other more progressive seeming churches seem be almost overly welcoming and prey on the vulnerable. I am in no doubt abuse goes on in a lot of them. A lot of them have some funny views about women and sex.

I think most churches closed because they have elderly, at risk congregations, not because they don't think they are important - bit of a sweeping statement unless you know what is happening in all UK churches..

They also closed because it would have been unlawful to stay open in some parts of the UK, and at some if the times during lockdown.

The churches I know of are still supporting with zoom services, phone calls, letters and cards. They are also running and manning foodbanks, and helping to drive people to their vaccine appointments.

I think because people have lost touch with any way of understanding the world which isn't concrete or empirical.

I am not sure that the bible for example was ever meant to be read as a literal truth.

Also humanity has become increasingly omnipotent as post enlightenment the scientific method had become the dominant way of understanding anything. "If we can't prove it, if there is no evidence for it, then it can't be true!"

I think the real truth is there are huge realms of life and the universe we simply do not perceive or understand.

We know our selves very poorly (though we think we know everything about ourselves, all we really know is what we are conscious of).

There are things in the universe that we have the capacity to understand only very dimly or not at all.

I am not saying this proves anything about a God, particularly - more that it is very difficult for people to accept that there is a lot they don't know, because it means there is a lot we don't control, and that is very anxiety provoking.

@singsingbluesilver

I think most churches closed because they have elderly, at risk congregations, not because they don't think they are important - bit of a sweeping statement unless you know what is happening in all UK churches..

They also closed because it would have been unlawful to stay open in some parts of the UK, and at some if the times during lockdown.

The churches I know of are still supporting with zoom services, phone calls, letters and cards. They are also running and manning foodbanks, and helping to drive people to their vaccine appointments.

If they organised food banks where only the people attending church regularly got the food, people would start taking church attendance more seriously. For a religion to be affective you actually need people taking part in the worship aspect regularly.

If they organised food banks where only the people attending church regularly got the food

Is this a genuine suggestion? Bribe the poor/ starving into worship?

How's about fuck off?

@tttigress I could disagree more. That will totally be again what religions teach - you don't just look out for your own. And if people only attended worship for material reward then that is not religious belief, and it would not make some more 'religious'.

I'm not sure what you mean about religion being effective? I think religion is having an impact on people - whether they believe in that religion or not - if it impacts on their lives in a positive way. Religion is being effective if it is helping to feed people, house people, educate people - many religions do good work in all of these fields. I think it makes no difference at all if the people being supported by religious organisations have faith or not.

*couldn't disagree more.

@singsingbluesilver

I think most churches closed because they have elderly, at risk congregations, not because they don't think they are important - bit of a sweeping statement unless you know what is happening in all UK churches..

They also closed because it would have been unlawful to stay open in some parts of the UK, and at some if the times during lockdown.

The churches I know of are still supporting with zoom services, phone calls, letters and cards. They are also running and manning foodbanks, and helping to drive people to their vaccine appointments.

Also your examples skew towards older people who are attending the church. I am not saying don't help older people, but for a church to be successful it needs younger people, so you need to be putting practical help in place for younger people before anything else. This could be for example setting up the best school in a town that everyone would be desperate for their child to get into, but obviously you have to make regular church attendance compulsory if you wanted to make the congregation more youthful.

Is this a genuine suggestion? Bribe the poor/ starving into worship?

Succinctly and nicely put.

Again - I disagree. You cannot successful make people 'religious' by bribing them with food or school places. Religions teach that caring for those in need is at the heart of their mission. People can only have faith if it is is freely given.

The PP has clearly missed the point of charity and kindness.

Here it is, explained by @singsingbluesilver

Religion is being effective if it is helping to feed people, house people, educate people - many religions do good work in all of these fields. I think it makes no difference at all if the people being supported by religious organisations have faith or not.

I’m astonished it still clings on. And alarmed in the rise of cult like personality driven alternative evangelical type
Churches. Load of old nonsense.
Through its tyranny it’s given us beautiful buildings and music.

I am not saying don't help older people

Phew! That’s a relief.

...but for a church to be successful it needs younger people, so you need to be putting practical help in place for younger people before anything else. This could be for example setting up the best school in a town that everyone would be desperate for their child to get into

So in summary, you’ll consider religion provided that it’s arranged in such a way as to give you everything you want without any of the awkward bits like, you know, reflecting on your own behaviour or sometimes doing things that you don’t want to do for the common good.

[quote singsingbluesilver]@tttigress I could disagree more. That will totally be again what religions teach - you don't just look out for your own. And if people only attended worship for material reward then that is not religious belief, and it would not make some more 'religious'.

I'm not sure what you mean about religion being effective? I think religion is having an impact on people - whether they believe in that religion or not - if it impacts on their lives in a positive way. Religion is being effective if it is helping to feed people, house people, educate people - many religions do good work in all of these fields. I think it makes no difference at all if the people being supported by religious organisations have faith or not.[/quote]
This is not actually true, for examples in British mosques a Friday collection is organised, we are not talking a few pounds on a collection plate, we are talking thousands for a larger mosque. A good mosque member who attends regularly and needs the money to build a future is then given the money for a house deposit or whatever. This is a big carrot for someone to attend in their 20s for example, and something that CoE and Catholic churches are not doing, and thus getting a church population that is skewing much older.

Also, if you look at my original post I suggest that lots of people are religious, without feeling they need to attend any formal worship or have any kind of official affiliation to one religion. The OP asked if the Uk was becoming less religious - I don't think so - I think it is becoming differently religious. In the modern world many people like to follow their our path - have faith and demonstrate their faith in their own way.

I think suggesting that faith might be bribed from people with food or education is wrong. I don't think religions, or at least the ones I am familiar with, would even consider it as an option. It is not was religion teaches - you don't offer charity with strings attached. I am not saying it didn't happens in the past - certainly missionary activity in some countries did this - and I am not saying it never happens today either. But it is wrong to imply that this is what all religions do to boost the numbers of people attending.

Are you seriously suggesting that the Church of England and the Catholic Church should lend money to people who come to their services/masses to buy houses with, and that that would be a sensible use of funds, as opposed to the charity work they do?

You really do get all sorts on here, eh?

Again, it is not only mosques attendees who are supported by charitable donations. Many, many non Muslims have been helped by Islamic relief and other charities funded through zakah.

@Iamthewombat

Are you seriously suggesting that the Church of England and the Catholic Church should lend money to people who come to their services/masses to buy houses with, and that that would be a sensible use of funds, as opposed to the charity work they do?

You really do get all sorts on here, eh?

Yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting, that was basically the original goal of churches, before the welfare state the church was your support network (we are not just talking spiritual it was just as much financial), now that people think they have the welfare state churches are dying.

@singsingbluesilver

Again, it is not only mosques attendees who are supported by charitable donations. Many, many non Muslims have been helped by Islamic relief and other charities funded through zakah.

This is true, but there can be a practical benefit to attending a mosque (financial or other practical support). But the church is offering nothing (especially to younger people which it needs)