To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

@Wearywithteens Any person in England can be married in their parish church, irrespective of whether they are Christian in good standing or not. It's the law (one of the overlaps between church and secular law). The vicar is simply not allowed to expect anything of the couple, s/he just needs to conduct a legal ceremony between willing people whomhave no impediment.

Baptism is however covered solely by church law, and although most vicars see it as important to welcome all who seek a welcome, you don't have the right to it in the same way as you have a right to marry in your own parish

" Irrelevant to most that it is used by a few people once a week to talk about a mythical being."

Err, nooo, those 'few people' believe god exists and use the church more than once a week.

"Baptism is however covered solely by church law, and although most vicars see it as important to welcome all who seek a welcome, you don't have the right to it in the same way as you have a right to marry in your own parish"

Thanks for that which clears up the confusion.

I had been away from mainstream C of E for so long I forgot they have only 2 Sacraments - Baptism and Communion.

Traditionalist Parishes have 7 Sacraments, one of which is Holy Matrimony.
That was where I was coming from.

Because it’s all a load of shite, and gives too much cover to paedophiles.

You are free to take your DCs to another school, no-one forces you to use that school.

I live in a rural area. Virtually all the primary schools are small CofE primaries. Why should I send my dc miles away when I want them to make friends in the village and there is a perfectly good school there? I would certainly rather it was non-church school though. Literally none of the parents of the kids at the school appear to be churchgoers. I live a few doors down from the church and often walk past it on my Sunday morning dog walk. I only ever see a handful of elderly people going in or out.

Ironic that people always like their village church school for its nurturing ethos, pastoral care and excellent holistic education and think that it’s CofE ‘status’ has nothing to do with those values.

It doesn't. I work there once a week myself, as it happens. I'm not aware that any of the staff are religious. The good pastoral care comes from having good, caring staff and a small cohort of kids, so everyone knows everyone well. It's no more or less nurturing than the equally excellent non-church school my dc went to before we moved to this area. Fortunately the school wears its CofE-ness pretty lightly. My dc are pretty strong-minded and not easily swayed - they tolerated the churchy stuff but didn't believe any of it.

Err, nooo, those 'few people' believe god exists and use the church more than once a week.

We know they believe god exists. That doesn't mean it's fact that he's not a mythical being. I'm not sure that whether people use the church 1, 2 or 3 times a week is really relevant to the poster's point. Church attendance has been in decline for a long time. Churches must spend most if their time empty.

We know they believe god exists.
agreed
That doesn't mean it's fact that he's not a mythical being.
agreed
I'm not sure that whether people use the church 1, 2 or 3 times a week is really relevant to the poster's point.
disagree, the poster was speculating
Church attendance has been in decline for a long time.
agreed
Churches must spend most if their time empty.
disagree - the churches I have attended have at least one service a day, (not including Christenings, funerals & weddings) have guides showing people around, a coffee bar/shop, a foodbank that is manned all day every day, choir practice, organ recitals, concerts, bible classes, pre-marriage preparation classes, a bookstall, good-as-new-clothes shop, rent out rooms to groups such as weight-loss consultants, and usually have a cleaner about somewhere.

And why does it matter if they are empty all week. Some football stadiums are, and no-one is complaining about tht.

@lazylinguist

You are free to take your DCs to another school, no-one forces you to use that school.

I live in a rural area. Virtually all the primary schools are small CofE primaries. Why should I send my dc miles away when I want them to make friends in the village and there is a perfectly good school there? I would certainly rather it was non-church school though. Literally none of the parents of the kids at the school appear to be churchgoers. I live a few doors down from the church and often walk past it on my Sunday morning dog walk. I only ever see a handful of elderly people going in or out.

Ironic that people always like their village church school for its nurturing ethos, pastoral care and excellent holistic education and think that it’s CofE ‘status’ has nothing to do with those values.

It doesn't. I work there once a week myself, as it happens. I'm not aware that any of the staff are religious. The good pastoral care comes from having good, caring staff and a small cohort of kids, so everyone knows everyone well. It's no more or less nurturing than the equally excellent non-church school my dc went to before we moved to this area. Fortunately the school wears its CofE-ness pretty lightly. My dc are pretty strong-minded and not easily swayed - they tolerated the churchy stuff but didn't believe any of it.

Exactly. Not just my village school, but all those in surrounding villages, were C of E. I would have had to drive my four year old a 20-mile round trip daily into the nearest city to find a non-C of E school.

Now we’ve moved countries, DS goes to a secular school which has just as excellent pastoral care and educational high standards, with the advantage of not having a loopy evangelical vicar preaching Biblical literalism at assemblies, and respecting the diverse faiths and no faiths of its pupils.

Because people have more education nowadays, are taught science and rational thinking and can read.

Religion relied in the past on the suppression and coercion of the mainly uneducated and illiterate. It was run by powerful, rich people and employed methods that explained the (at the time) unexplainable.

People are not as fooled.

'Not just my village school, but all those in surrounding villages, were C of E. I would have had to drive my four year old a 20-mile round trip daily into the nearest city to find a non-C of E school.'

If the C of E didn't sponsor these schools then perhaps they wouldn't exist. There would be few schools in rural areas of small populations without Church support.

Oh. And then the continued existence of church schools that are basically your normal catchment area state school is disgusting.

Not everyone can drive.
People need to put their children into the school closest to their house.

That school should not be one of any particular religious bias. It's antiquated abs not representative of modern day Britain and they should be stopped.

People do not want their child brainwashed by religious rhetoric at school.

Schools should be secular places of learning and the religious education contained within them should be regulated nationally to include all regions and not governed by any church/religious body so they can take out whatever doesn't fit their religious bias.

It really infuriates me.

The church should have no part in school governance.

Any person in England can be married in their parish church, irrespective of whether they are Christian in good standing or not.

Unless they're in a same-sex relationship.

@homeishere

Because it’s all a load of shite, and gives too much cover to paedophiles

Word for word what I was going to say!

@AnitaB888

'Not just my village school, but all those in surrounding villages, were C of E. I would have had to drive my four year old a 20-mile round trip daily into the nearest city to find a non-C of E school.'

If the C of E didn't sponsor these schools then perhaps they wouldn't exist. There would be few schools in rural areas of small populations without Church support.

General knowledge — even about the C of E — really isn’t your strong point, is it? I hesitate to muddy your gloriously deluded vision of the C of E ‘sponsoring’ little tottering schools in depopulated rural areas for the glory of god, but I suggest you look up how the majority of C of E schools are funded, and the relationship between the school, diocese and LA.

And the school in my village , far from being propped up by the church, in fact propped up the church. The only time you saw anyone other than the same few pensioners going in and out was the school nativity plays or end of term services.

"And then the continued existence of church schools that are basically your normal catchment area state school is disgusting"

So what are you doing to change that situation?

State-funded faith schools are usually voluntary aided (VA) or voluntary controlled (VC) schools. This means that they get some of their funding from a religious organisation, which also usually owns the school buildings and the land.
Each diocese runs a Diocesan Board of Education supporting Church schools, which represents an annual investment of over £15 million.

"And the school in my village , far from being propped up by the church, in fact propped up the church"
How?
Churches are part of 'groups' with the 'richer' churches subsidising the smaller ones.

@AnitaB888

"And then the continued existence of church schools that are basically your normal catchment area state school is disgusting"

So what are you doing to change that situation?

I have been lobbying against church schools for years. Will keep doing so and weighing in with my professional clout where I possibly can as well.

Religious involvement harms secular learning and allowed time for secular learning. Time should not be taken out of the schools for things like the Eucharist. This should be done in family time, at a weekend.

Err, nooo, those 'few people' believe god exists and use the church more than once a week.

Way to miss the point. Whether or not a person visits a venue to talk about a 'mythical' being once a week or 7 times a week makes ZERO difference to me when I hire the place for a wedding. Why do you think it should?

Given average weekly attendance of CofE is around 1% the population, the number of people attending more than once a week must be very very small.

@callistography,

You say 'I have been lobbying against church schools for years. '

Does that include all faith-based schools? and

'Religious involvement harms secular learning and allowed time for secular learning. Time should not be taken out of the schools for things like the Eucharist. This should be done in family time, at a weekend.'

You are misinformed.
In C of E schools The Eucharist is usually celebrated before school starts and at lunch time. Attendance is not compulsory.

I cannot comment on pastoral care in other Faith Schools such as Islamic, or Jewish.

Does your campaign to get religion banned from schools and having secularism pushed upon children, against their parents wishes include them as well?

Does your campaign to get religion banned from schools and having secularism pushed upon children, against their parents wishes include them as well?

Good grief. Having secularism pushed upon children against their parents' wishes? What on earth are you on about? Not making Christian worship part of the school day is not pushing secularism on anybody. It's just being inclusive. But then again, inclusivity isn't really your bag, is it?

Because it's boring, hypocritical, made up and causes a lot of pointless wars and bitterness. Oh, and it's completely patriarchal.

Every child on the UK is entitled to an education. That should be an inclusive, secular, faith-free education which teaches about all world religions. Why should a child have to travel miles and miles to go to a secular school because the school in their village is a faith school? If you want a faith school, you should have to do the travelling to get to it. All schools should be secular. Parents can indoctrinate their children at home, it's not the schools' job.

@Beseigedbykillersquirrels

Every child on the UK is entitled to an education
agreed
That should be an inclusive, secular, faith-free education which teaches about all world religions
That is your opinion
If you want a faith school, you should have to do the travelling to get to it.
So you think parents who want their children to access a faith school should be discriminated against?

As British society became more religiously diverse, a significant number of adherents of minority faiths sought to emulate the churches’ model and establish schools reflecting their own distinctive creed and ethos.
The Islamia Primary School in London became the first state-funded Muslim school in 1998. The first Sikh school opened in 1999 and the first Hindu school in 2008.

So you would ban religious teaching in these ^ schools?!

Oh my word. How on earth is it 'discrimination' for schools to be inclusive and secular? You really are making a bit of a tit of yourself. Why should those of other faiths or none only have the option of a church school to send their children to? Why can't there be one church school in the locality for those who choose to send their children to one and the rest be inclusive? So that everybody's children get the education they deserve, not just the Christian children. Although yes, if it was up to me I'd ban religious practice in schools. It isn't necessary and it's something that should be taught at home/in the religious building of choice.