To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

@DNHandTNS

Those with a faith can pray and put down all the burdens that those without a faith are burdened by. We have a hope and peace, for this life and the next. It is what it is.

How very pious of you.

No, I’m not an apologist, I was a victim of child sexual abuse and rape though, so your post was quite upsetting and triggering. I do quite a lot for victims in terms of peer support. So yeah, call me stupid, but you don’t know me, and I’m far from an apologist for abusers and rapists. I’m going to to bow out.

The thread started with religion as a concept. There was no need to single out any specific religion.

Need? No. Reasons? yes.

It does seem that you have a particular hatred for Christianity, which you may want to get therapy for if you have had bad experiences in your past, rather than carrying it with you painfully.

I don't find my atheism remotely painful. I don't hate Christians, or people of any religion, I just think they are wrong about there being a god. Some awful things have been done by people in the name of religion - I certainly think those things and people deserve anger, but religion itself doesn't make me angry, just a bit incredulous. I find religion fascinating from a psychological and cultural point of view. It's interesting how religious posters often interpret lively debate and criticism as anger and hate. If someone questions my atheism, I don't assume they hate me.

Because it's all a big lie that promotes men above women and we have enough of that everywhere else.

Yeah, all these people who hate Christianity seem angry and sad. Thankfully I'm happy, great family, satisfied with all aspects of life, and loving it. My faith in God stems from several personal experiences. I would not criticise anyone for their beliefs. If a Muslim wants to be a Muslim, fine. It's not acceptable for me to bash it.

@DNHandTNS

Perhaps instead of singling out Christians for their faith and their right to choose what faith they believe in, you might consider getting therapy for your angry views and the belief that all people are bad if they believe in the bible. It has never worked singling out a group of people as BAD. It has gone very badly throughout history and is not even legal in the UK to condemn people for the right to follow the faith of their choosing.

Hmmm. Doesn't the Bible single out people who are 'bad'/wrong? Hypocrisy from a Christian? Surely not! It's also illegal to condemn people for being homosexual but I guess you don't care too much about that because the Bible says it's wrong. It's also illegal to rape kids and cover it up, but I doubt you've managed to find time to read those irrelevant links yet, being so busy defending the good works the church could do.

@Marmunia11975

Yeah, all these people who hate Christianity seem angry and sad. Thankfully I'm happy, great family, satisfied with all aspects of life, and loving it. My faith in God stems from several personal experiences. I would not criticise anyone for their beliefs. If a Muslim wants to be a Muslim, fine. It's not acceptable for me to bash it.

Angry and sad at the heinous abuses that the church has facilitated and covered up? You bet I am. I'm quite disgusted that you're not.

Yeah, all these people who hate Christianity seem angry and sad. Thankfully I'm happy, great family, satisfied with all aspects of life, and loving it.

I'm happy too, thanks! Wonderful family and live in a beautiful area, for which I am glad every day, hobbies which keep me occupied, lovely pets. Not remotely angry and sad. Honestly - disagreement and debate do not equate to anger and sadness. Occasional mild irritation at some people's daft remarks maybe, but no more than that.

@Marmunia11975

And please don't celebrate Christmas if you don't believe in God. It's laughable and you look like a goof.

We celebrate my birthday on the 25th December...our family gathering (pre-covid), on that day was all about me.

What I can't get my head around is the number of people who say they aren't 'religious' ie not Christian, say they don't believe in a (Christian) God, say religion ie Christianity is pants but they still want a big church wedding, their DC Christened, and want a priest/vicar/minister at loved one's funerals.

I just don't get it.

Let's criticise Islam. Ah yeah....too afraid.

Yeah sure because it's not like Islamophobia exists or is widespread, or exists on MN, is it...

Muslims make up 4.4% of the British population (and that's all Muslims, including non-practicing Muslims). For all the scaremongering and barely coded racist dog whistles about "Islam taking over" and it's fine to criticise us poor oppressed Christians but no one ever dares say a word about Islam", the fact remains that Muslims are a tiny minority within the UK.

Between 50%-70% of Brits identify as Christian (depending on how it's surveyed) so of course a discussion about religion in the UK will centre around the dominant and official state religion of that country. If we were on an American forum a thread about religion might be about the rise of fundamentalism; an Italian forum would likely discuss Catholicism; an Indian forum Hinduism or the clash between Hindu and Muslim Indians.

Yeah, all these people who hate Christianity seem angry and sad
I must admit, I do get angry and sad seeing all the clearly traumatized First Nations people living on the streets near me. What the Church (and government) did to them was truly heinous and the damage can never be undone.

Whether yiu have a big wedding or not has nothing to do with whether it's in a church. But the church wedding thing is sometimes just that people like it as a pretty location, or maybe that their family are religious even if they themselves aren't, and they want to keep them happy. The thing is, if you don't believe in god, you're not necessarily going to feel that marrying in a church is a wrong thing to do, since you don't believe there's a god to offend. It's just a traditional place to get married.

I do think it's a bit weird to have your dc christened if neither parent believes in god though. I'm not christened and neither are my dc.

Yeah, I shrug too when people get married in church??!! Like....hello?? Why, if you disagree with the church and its role. And don't get Christened either, because it really is taking the piss.

Why not go to a Hindu temple or do some Ramadan?

@AnitaB888

What I can't get my head around is the number of people who say they aren't 'religious' ie not Christian, say they don't believe in a (Christian) God, say religion ie Christianity is pants but they still want a big church wedding, their DC Christened, and want a priest/vicar/minister at loved one's funerals.

I just don't get it.

The reason my mum’s funeral was religious was because she was a practising member of that religion and it’s what she wanted. Mine won’t be, it will be humanist.

Thankfully I'm happy, great family, satisfied with all aspects of life, and loving it

Oh same here, not 100% sure what its got to do with the thread but i do have a lovely family

@Marmunia11975

Yeah, I shrug too when people get married in church??!! Like....hello?? Why, if you disagree with the church and its role. And don't get Christened either, because it really is taking the piss.

Why not go to a Hindu temple or do some Ramadan?

Because people like the pomp, the tradition etc? It's not hard to understand.

"The thing is, if you don't believe in god, you're not necessarily going to feel that marrying in a church is a wrong thing to do, since you don't believe there's a god to offend."

Errr, don't get this.

So making promises in front of a God you don't believe in, singing hymns to God that doesn't exist, being married by a person who is a servant of a God who doesn't exist, saying prayers to a God who doesn't exist, asking for the blessing on your marriage from a God who doesn't exist seems a bit stupid to me - and not very meaningful.

Much better to have a Civil Ceremony and have done with it.

@lazylinguist

Whether yiu have a big wedding or not has nothing to do with whether it's in a church. But the church wedding thing is sometimes just that people like it as a pretty location, or maybe that their family are religious even if they themselves aren't, and they want to keep them happy. The thing is, if you don't believe in god, you're not necessarily going to feel that marrying in a church is a wrong thing to do, since you don't believe there's a god to offend. It's just a traditional place to get married.

I do think it's a bit weird to have your dc christened if neither parent believes in god though. I'm not christened and neither are my dc.

And family pressure can relate to christenings as well

"The reason my mum’s funeral was religious was because she was a practising member of that religion and it’s what she wanted. Mine won’t be, it will be humanist."

And that's totally respectful and what she would have wanted. I don't have an issue with that - what I have an issue with is hypocrites.

@rosetylersbiggun

Let's criticise Islam. Ah yeah....too afraid.

Yeah sure because it's not like Islamophobia exists or is widespread, or exists on MN, is it...

Muslims make up 4.4% of the British population (and that's all Muslims, including non-practicing Muslims). For all the scaremongering and barely coded racist dog whistles about "Islam taking over" and it's fine to criticise us poor oppressed Christians but no one ever dares say a word about Islam", the fact remains that Muslims are a tiny minority within the UK.

Between 50%-70% of Brits identify as Christian (depending on how it's surveyed) so of course a discussion about religion in the UK will centre around the dominant and official state religion of that country. If we were on an American forum a thread about religion might be about the rise of fundamentalism; an Italian forum would likely discuss Catholicism; an Indian forum Hinduism or the clash between Hindu and Muslim Indians.

Also, this thread is about why "religion" is declining in the UK, but I don't think Islam is. I think only Christianity is. So the rest are kind of irrelevant to the question. It was a badly worded question in the first place tbf.

"It was a badly worded question in the first place tbf."

I agree.

At the risk of being accused of putting words in the OP's mouth, I think the question related to Christianity.

I am quite happy to be corrected.

Why not go to a Hindu temple or do some Ramadan?

Because you are from a Christian-based culture, not a Hindu or Muslim one. Some of the cultural traditions of Christianity are fairly embedded in society. Some of them people choose to keep, simply because they are traditional and they like them.

Re: the wedding thing, it doesn't look like the Church of England cares much whether you're religious either. After all, they do get paid for it. You have to fulfill only one of the 7 criteria, which include 'you lived in the parish for 6 months at some point' or 'your parents lived in the parish for 6 months at some point since your birth'! Why would the church welcome non-church-goers getting married there if it were wrong or disrespectful?

At the risk of being accused of putting words in the OP's mouth, I think the question related to Christianity.

I suspect you are right. But it doesn't really matter. People are obviously entitled to base their responses on their own sphere of experience. If someone from a UK-based Muslim or Hindu background had come onto the thread and posted about their views on whether those religions were declining in the UK or not, and why, then that obviously would have been totally relevant too.

In answer to the original question my experiences with religion have been purely based on misogyny so I'm afraid I'll stay away from the fairytale, but I'll be respectful of anyone's religion no matter what it is.