To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

Because most religions have rules and ways of living which, if followed properly, are meant to be for the greater good of the community as a whole and aimed at thinking of others, and since the 80s we have been encouraged to think of ourselves and our own personal gain, which does not sit well with faiths that encourage personal sacrifice for the greater good.

Also, in Ireland especially, the utter hypocrisy of the Church in covering up child abuse while telling the rest of the population how they should be conducting themselves doesn’t sit well.

IMO Britain is becoming less religious because the state religion has become plainer than vanilla ice-cream.

To indoctrinate people into religion you need to beat it into them when they are young. You need to enforce multiple daily prayers/worship in schools and at home. You need to educate them religion is factually true and give them privileged access to schools. You need to promote procreation in family's, discourage divorce and stigmatise childless same sex relations. You need to get them when they are young and get as many of them as possible.

Some of this is partly accomplished by instilling a fear of hell and Satan, does the CofE even preach hellfire, damnation and eternal suffering any more? And on the flip side you need to promise them privileged access to an eternal utopia irrelevant of morality or actions.

But hardly any of this is done any more and so the vanilla state religion declines. No surprise.

@Flipflops85

They are run by men

My church has 2 female ministers. Deacons are 50/50. Probably slightly more females in the kid’s ministry.

Ha ha, this just gets funnier and funnier! It really is the equivalent of saying, "I'm not racist, I have a black friend". How much power or influence do you honestly think these two female ministers have in the greater scheme of things within the patriarchy that is Christianity?! And your and @DNHandTNS's comments about there being no or few men involved in the kids' ministry, as though that's something to be proud of, just reinforces the patriarchal system you are part of. Of course women are running the children's show - that's what they are there for, while the men attend to much more important matters. This thread is the gift that keeps on giving!

It was more to point out that some churches are, in fact, clearly not run by men if ‘the church’ was run by men, there wouldn’t be any run by women.

Ok. 'The Church' doesn't refer to single churches, as in buildings, it's the whole institution. Good grief

@Blueeyedgirl21 - it's ok because @DNHandTNS believes that as horrific child abuse occurs in other organisations aswell it's not hugely problematic within the church. After all, they're not doing anything other people aren't, and could be doing some good along with it so raping, beating, stealing and killing babies is no biggie.

To be honest, most churches of the denomination I attend tend to always have at least one female minister these days and if not female preachers. More can always be done, but still, it’s good to see.

I’ve never attended a CE or Catholic Church, although (probably totally by chance) my school vicars were female too as is the vicar at my kid’s school. I think a quarter of bishops are now female - so not a majority, but on an upward trend

"Church doesn't inspire me" = I am too lazy to be bothered to make a commitment

Hmm. Fifty odd years of trying to get a response from thin air. Maybe I was too lazy or just not committed enough.

And please don't celebrate Christmas if you don't believe in God. It's laughable and you look like a goof.

You do know the December celebrations have Pagan origins and were appropriated by early missionaries to help make them more palatable to the indigenous population of Britain?

I was brought up going to church every week. Till at least 16. I refused to get confirmed because I didn't believe in God. My Mum was deeply religious and honestly she lived by those beliefs. However I found quite a lot of her friends unchristian in their beliefs and hypocritical - they would definitely cross to the other side of the street to avoid homeless people, they judged the poor, were racist and homophobic. Anyone who believes that people in loving gay relationships are sinful does not deserve my respect. And gay vicars are fine so long as they aren't intimate. I also don't think the church deals with the real moral issues of the day. It's not a force for good and equality.

That said I can understand and respect those who sincerely live their beliefs and who engage their spirituality. I have quite a few friends who are Buddhists and I respect their beliefs and sincerity.

We should all strive to do our best at being good people. I've personally not needed to buy into church and God and all that stuff. I could never honestly say I believe the world was created in 7 days or in the virgin birth or that I will be judged by God before going to heaven or hell. That is all very far fetched. Personally I think when you're dead you're dead.

So much of this thread is about how Christians try to force their views on people

Is it? I don't think we've really been saying that. There is one poster that keeps insisting that God does exist and that we all should be worrying about what Jesus will make of our actions. And historically, certainly, Christianity was forced on people. But most of he atheists on this thread have been pointing out flaws in the arguments that God exists or that the bible is a truthful or reliable document, not complaining about having Christianity forced on us. obody has ever tried to convert me to Christianity actually.

And please don't celebrate Christmas if you don't believe in God. It's laughable and you look like a goof.

A goof? Oh no! That's one of the daftest things I've heard on the thread so far. Most people in the UK who don't belong to non-Christian religions (and some who do!) celebrate Christmas. Huge numbers of them don't believe in god. That's one hell of a lot of goofs. I'll celebrate whatever I like, thank you very much.

And please don't celebrate Christmas if you don't believe in God. It's laughable and you look like a goof

Like christians did, im making my own meaning for xmas
Santa day
A day of family, presents, food and relaxing

Easter is chocolate day
indulging, family, relaxing, cute bunnies

Why are so many people culturally appropriating Yuletide, Saturnalia, Pascha and Ostern. Its really offensive to do this! Do you not care about your religious privilege?

Easter is chocolate day

Ive searched the bible and cant seem to find the section that talks about chocolate eggs, I take it we eat them to ward off the zombie jesus like garlic to vampires, but what if were wrong and were meant to throw the chocolate eggs at zombie jesus like silver bullets and werewolves

In our house the Easter weekend is known as the chocolate weekend.

I don't think there's anything very unusual about the more enjoyable festivals and traditions being retained long after many people have stopped believing in the actual religion, or being celebrated by people who live in a country where that religion has been the dominant one, even if they are not believers themselves. Those events become part of a country's culture. I couldn't find UK statistics, but according to a survey, 81% of non-Christians (i.e. atheists and people of other religions) in the USA celebrate Christmas.

[quote Beseigedbykillersquirrels]**@Blueeyedgirl21* - it's ok because @DNHandTNS* believes that as horrific child abuse occurs in other organisations aswell it's not hugely problematic within the church. After all, they're not doing anything other people aren't, and could be doing some good along with it so raping, beating, stealing and killing babies is no biggie.[/quote]
That is not what I meant. What are you even on about? Who's raping, stealing and killing babies currently?

I dont mean proof of historical abuse. I mean current proof, if you can. Or are you one of those Conspiracy theory nuts who just spread hate an rumours?

So much of this thread is about how Christians try and force their views on people

That will be because Christians have literally spent the last 2000 years trying to force their views on people. Or "spreading the good news" as they like to call it. They're not unique in that, all protilizing religions do it. But they win that prize in western culture.

Many people don't go because they think God is an idiot and have no reason to worship him.

@Marinaloves

It was nice for a while Suited the menz I don’t think even they really believed it

Women are generally more religious though.

The idiocy ... I can’t even .. conspiracy theories? Now think you’re being deliberately goady, surely no one can be THIS thick?

www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/07/31/897773274/u-s-missionary-with-no-medical-training-settles-suit-over-child-deaths-at-her-ce?t=1613298566866

www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna967191

www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2013-06-17-ct-met-missionary-abuse-20130617-story,amp.html

www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/us-missionary-15-years-abuse-kenyan-orphanage-75686492

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/child-sex-abuse-priests-church-england-inquiry-report-iicsa-b833262.html%3famp

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/19/church-of-england-reveals-50-rise-in-abuse-claims-and-concerns

You wanted receipts you got them. Now if you can be arsed to read them let me know what you think .

Let me make it clear I’m not singling out Christianity here but the conversation I’m having is about British Christian church

We could have this conversation about most religious institutions

I dont mean proof of historical abuse. I mean current proof, if you can

Child exorcisms?

Fundamentalist beliefs regarding corporal punishment?

Let me make it clear I’m not singling out Christianity here but the conversation I’m having is about British Christian church

Is that why 4/6 of your links are from the US?

@WoolieLiberal

Because most religions have rules and ways of living which, if followed properly, are meant to be for the greater good of the community as a whole and aimed at thinking of others, and since the 80s we have been encouraged to think of ourselves and our own personal gain, which does not sit well with faiths that encourage personal sacrifice for the greater good.

You see, I would absolutely agree that there's a problem with society being too individualistic and too consumerist. But I'm not sure religion is necessarily the way out of that. I'm not sure it's especially selfless to do good things because you're afraid of eternal damnation. And, while I've met many absolutely lovely religious people and religious leaders, with many there seems to be a very limited idea of generosity and selflessness. The sort who'll put a lot in the church collection but, regarding homelessness, will go "It's a shame but it's quite often their own fault really." This is not, of course, representative of all religious people. Nor is it at all limited to religious people. I'd like a less selfish society and a less consumerist society. But I like to think that can be achieved without the threat of eternal damnation.