To ask why religion is declining in Britain

[Jackieweaver2024]

Just that really I would be interested to hear everyone’s opinions?

I don't know about Priests and young boys, yes it happened and I hope it doesn't anymore. I would think/hope that today there would be so much legislation and child protection policies.

No one is denying that these things have happened, but tarring everyone with the same brush is like judging all Muslims because an extremist bombed somewhere and killed a load of people. I don't know what has happened to tolerance, but I would have thought that anyone who has faith is in a much better place to cope with covid and lockdown than anyone in direct rebellion to it.

Can you prove that God doesn't exist?

@Buybuybuy

Because people now worship at the alter of rampant consumerism.

Having endured church for fifty odd years I can assure you there were more rampant consumers within its pews than you could shake a stick at.

Private and selective education (presumably in the interests of giving the next generation the potential of the income for rampant consumerism) was big too.

Religion is repulsive. I'm all for community but when you have religions that view other non believers as going to hell, or not 'chosen' or somehow lacking... then I have issues. Look at some of the most horrific human rights abuses and it boils down to religious strife eg Bosnia with its muslim/Christian neighbours doing unspeakable things to each other. Or the Palestinians who remain in the most awful conditions or how about most of the Spanish Inquisition or even the Missionaries and invaders who wrought carnage upon indigenous populations in the Americas?

Is that religion or faith that you find repulsive OP?

@DNHandTNS

How two faced that the same people on here criticizing churches and running down "stupid" people for believing "nonsense" are going to be all nicey nicey to their local Priest/Vicar/Minister when they suddenly need to plan a funeral. I bet then they'll appreciate support then. How convenient.

This is exactly the problem though. “ The Church” muscled in on every aspect of life over the last 1000 years. Yet seems reluctant to be part of the society it forced upon us. You don’t get to squish a society into your mould and then complain when people want to use the traditions despite being non believers. Unfortunately if the people of Britain want a church wedding or funeral or sing carols at Christmas you’ll have to suck it up. You shouldn’t have insisted on being the law for so long it lost its revel an eye.

Because I dont believe a book of fairy tales written by man as a means to keep men in power and women down trodden is any reasonable reason to create a religion from it & worship it.

The idea of believing in these stories is just so nonsensical, to believe there is a giant man fairy in the sky controlling people is even worse.

I'm not complaining, but pointing out that some people will be quick to criticize and won't do anything to support their community, but will feel entitled to support when they need it. The same people who say faith is rubbish and the church doesn't do anything will be the same people who cry all over their vicar/priest/whoever. That's life.

Religion is repulsive. I'm all for community but when you have religions that view other non believers as going to hell

Why do you think it is OK to tar all religions with the same brush?

Some extremely religious people do unspeakable things, some atheists do unspeakable things. To blame all the ills of the world on religion is simply ridiculous. Your argument is simply not valid.

I used to go to our local C of E church, and it was nothing like that at all. The congregation was largely made up of gentle pensioners and professional, very highly educated people quite capable of thinking for themselves.

There is so much ignorance on this thread.

I am not religious BTW. I am simply not a bigot.

@SpnBaby1967

Because I dont believe a book of fairy tales written by man as a means to keep men in power and women down trodden is any reasonable reason to create a religion from it & worship it.

The idea of believing in these stories is just so nonsensical, to believe there is a giant man fairy in the sky controlling people is even worse.

Quite. And the damage done by twisted individuals who have destroyed and manipulated people. Iran, once progressive and Liberal became a complete shell of itself.

@Ginfordinner

Religion is repulsive. I'm all for community but when you have religions that view other non believers as going to hell

Why do you think it is OK to tar all religions with the same brush?

Some extremely religious people do unspeakable things, some atheists do unspeakable things. To blame all the ills of the world on religion is simply ridiculous. Your argument is simply not valid.

I used to go to our local C of E church, and it was nothing like that at all. The congregation was largely made up of gentle pensioners and professional, very highly educated people quite capable of thinking for themselves.

There is so much ignorance on this thread.

I am not religious BTW. I am simply not a bigot.

This ^^

We were all pagans once. Christianity was brought to our shores and now perhaps it’s leaving.

Christian democracy has been so economically and morally unsuccessful compared to, say, Buddhist or Atheist countries.

I would far rather live in Cambodia or Thailand.

The emphasis on humility instead of mastery was exquisitely called out by Nietzsche.

There are so many howlers. How can anyone accept ‘the first shall be last and the last first’, ‘judge not, that ye be judged’, ‘love thy neighbour as thy self’ or even to ‘forgive not seven but seventy seven times’?

‘What is more Harmful than any vice? Practical sympathy for the botched and weak - Christianty ....’

It is so good we have all grown up beyond the Sermon on the Mount. We are all better for it.

www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2017/sep/21/why-religious-belief-isnt-a-delusion-in-psychological-terms-at-least
Interesting article

My mum was an atheist. And brazen about it too
Her marriage of 27 years ended. She happened to make friends with a member of the Catholic Church. Suddenly my mum got herself a prayer book, a rosary and spent much of her day praying. Twice a week at church wasn't enough.
It got to the point that I'd phone her and she hadn't finished praying ( no matter what time of day it was) so I'd have to phone back.

She fell out with me , for a few years, because we chose not to have our children christened. ( We were heathens and were denying Christ.)

She put so much , every week , in the church collection and into the blessing of the home. She couldn't afford it.

Since Covid, she has discovered that The C of E have been instrumental in getting her to appointments etc.. yet the Catholic Church had been nowhere to be seen.
If only I lived nearer but I'm just aghast at Catholicism.
My mum has been made to feel guilty , by the Catholic Church, because of the ending of her abusive marriage.
She feels the guilt so many years after( decades!)
I utterly despair.

Can you prove that God doesn't exist?
I see we have now entered the realm of the Flying Spaghetti Monster...

How two faced that the same people on here criticizing churches and running down "stupid" people for believing "nonsense" are going to be all nicey nicey to their local Priest/Vicar/Minister when they suddenly need to plan a funeral. I bet then they'll appreciate support then. How convenient.

1) I don't care what happens to my body after I'm dead b) It's not people's fault that the church has controlled things like end of life arrangements.

I'm still struggling to comprehend the vile and inhumane way that the Catholic Church has dealt with young single mums. And not that long ago either.

@DNHandTNS

I'm not complaining, but pointing out that some people will be quick to criticize and won't do anything to support their community, but will feel entitled to support when they need it. The same people who say faith is rubbish and the church doesn't do anything will be the same people who cry all over their vicar/priest/whoever. That's life.

You are coming across as rather angry in your recent posts. Are you describing particular people you actually know? Or just making assumptions? I fit certain criteria you mention. My partner died and he was a believer. Out of respect, I organised a religious (but not a church) funeral for him. I did no crying or fake niceties with the vicar, a perfect stranger to me. I went over which songs he would have wanted, gave him the information he required, paid up and that was that. Why, exactly, do you think people are suddenly going to feel an overwhelming need to weep into the arms of strangers and pretend to be nice to them because a loved one has died? And you seem to be smugly suggesting that you would enjoy it or that it would prove you right or something if this were in fact the case. Most human beings would comfort a bereaved person if it came up, especially if funerals were part of their job description. Also, funerals don't have to be religious, so not every bereaved party will be sobbing and faking being nice to a priest to observe their loved one's wishes of having a religious funeral. What an odd thing to suggest.

"Not having a faith does not make you morally superior" It makes me morally superior to someone who worships a god that boasts of being a mass murderer of children. Who delights in punishing people for the crimes of others and out of anger if someone dares to talk back.

The Abrahamic God doesn't exist but its worshipers do do and they should be ashamed to admit it.

@DNHandTNS

How two faced that the same people on here criticizing churches and running down "stupid" people for believing "nonsense" are going to be all nicey nicey to their local Priest/Vicar/Minister when they suddenly need to plan a funeral. I bet then they'll appreciate support then. How convenient.

Nobody should need to involve a church for a funeral but they've had such control over society for so long that it's the only way people know how to plan them. But people are pushing away from religious wedding, funerals, christenings even (baby naming ceremonies) finding ways to celebrate without involving the church. The same as Christmas, people complaining that non Christian's celebrating Christmas but it's been forced down our necks forever, as has Easter.

[quote jackstini]@LApprentiSorcier because he gave people freedom of choice and unfortunately some people choose to be awful

Even if everyone only followed one commandment - love your neighbour as yourself - the world would be a much better place!

There are a lot of interesting cases where atheist scientists have been determined to disprove God and ended up becoming Christians! [/quote]
It's a pity you can't train your god to follow that one.

@DNHandTNS

How two faced that the same people on here criticizing churches and running down "stupid" people for believing "nonsense" are going to be all nicey nicey to their local Priest/Vicar/Minister when they suddenly need to plan a funeral. I bet then they'll appreciate support then. How convenient.

Why would I want your priest at a funeral? You get that non-believers don't believe in god right?

I'd be as likely to ask a clown from the local circus.

I'm not complaining, but pointing out that some people will be quick to criticize and won't do anything to support their community, but will feel entitled to support when they need it. The same people who say faith is rubbish and the church doesn't do anything will be the same people who cry all over their vicar/priest/whoever. That's life.

I don't think many atheists or even agnostics will be 'crying over their vicar or priest'. I don't even know who my local vicar is. It would not remotely occur to me to turn to a church whatever happened. Also, supporting a church is not remotely the only way of supporting your community, since most members of your community have no connection with a church! I find it extraordinary that you think that many people still turn to a vicar or priest in times of difficulty.

It makes me morally superior to someone who worships a god that boasts of being a mass murderer of children.

Which god is that?
I doubt that the people of faith that I know worship a murderer?

Why are all people who believe in a God tarred with the same brush?

There are plenty of evil atheists around, so why not tar them all with the same brush?

No, I'm not religious. I just don't make sweeping statements.

The thing is, the church is damned if they do and damned if they don't. They can't produce a 2021 updated version of the Bible to make it more palatable, relatable, compatible with 21st century life, or just remotely believable as it will lose all of its authority. The word of God is final and unchanging, apparently, so how can they caveat that with, ah but gays are ok now, and women are equals and owning slaves is wrong and we don't agree with stoning people to death any more. Nor do we think that birth control is a sin, and are pro choice (if god gave man free will to be evil, for example all the raping and paedophilic priests and baby stealing nuns, why can't women have a choice over their own bodies?) We also think it's great that you want to live with your partner before committing to marriage and we will support you in divorcing your abusive husband. That would be admitting that god made a mistake. He was wrong. But the vicar can tell you which bits are still right and therefore you should blindly follow and believe. The whole thing is down to interpretation. No different from an English literature teacher guiding GSCE students through a book.
I find Catholicism the most repugnant of all. Millions of women had to have periods every month just so the pope wouldn't argue against the pill. Why was a man ever allowed so much control over women's bodies? Ah yes, that's right, Christianity.