Midwives told to stop using terms such as 'breastfeeding' and 'breastmilk'

[MissMoped]

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

@NiceGerbil

She doesn't, pumpkin bump.

The document says so.

I know, I was referring to her question re right wing. I'm of the same opinion as her. Sorry for the confusion.

Chestmilk!

Of all the terminology that seeks desperately to be inclusive but in fact simply erases / marginalises women, ‘chest feeding’ has to take the biscuit. It’s just a nonsense term and utterly ridiculous.

Women feed babies with their breasts (or formula, I happily used both!). If a trans man is feeding their baby without a bottle, they will still be doing so with their breasts. To call it anything else is just absurd.

I feel for trans men that are struggling with complex feelings around their identity. But if a trans man opts to give birth (and breast feed) they are doing so with their biologically female anatomy. Trying to deny or gloss over this is madness.

I love how society will accept men as women, yet it won’t even accept women as women. What a fucking joke . .

OP you have misrepresented the document though.

Getting women on here frothing over inaccurate posts only serves to support the idea that women who are GC are bigots who are looking for reasons to have a go at trans people.

When the main NHS how to get pregnant page has been rewritten to remove the word woman, rendering it nonsensical (8 out of 10 people under 40 will get pregnant within a year of trying) we don't need this sort of thing.

FFS 🤦‍♀️

I must admit i don't understand why breastfeeding is so awful when men have breast tissue and can get breast cancer.

Breasts seem to be a massive deal for trans people (and society in general).

What would the compromise be? I'm GC, but it's getting to the stage now that we need to negotiate some of these things. I'd be ok with "women and transmen" or even "women and other birthers" or something. As long as "women" doesn't disappear and I get referred to as a woman throughout my treatment. I'm happy for a transman to be referred to as an "other birther" or "birther" or "transman". Transwomen have got nothing to do with birthing. I would also like to see these changes made in terminoligy in male medicine. "Men and others with prostates" or something.

We need to start negotiating our way out of this. We need sensible options. Surely it's the only way forward. I rarely see anything about solutions to all this.

We need dialogue with empathy on both sides. I'm getting angrier by the day and it's not healthy.

I think all the posters above underestimate the degree to which the breastfeeding world (charities/activists) is totally institutionally captured by the need for inclusivity.

Referring exclusively or even primarily to women and breasts is no longer the done thing. Anyone suggesting that this is suboptimal is shouted down aggressively for being anti-trans. Even the most measured discussion of the equality act etc is hateful/bigoted and leads to disciplinary action. I've seen it repeatedly in various contexts.

It's all about be kind, it takes nothing from me, rights aren't pie.

In fairness, trans men are welcome, do need support to feed their babies, and that's cool. But mothering is no longer what I'm doing apparently, which is where I object.

What percentage of people who give birth are transmen anyway? Surely it's so womanly, they'd want to do their best to avoid it. If they've medically transitioned, it's got to be quite a challenge, hasn't it?

@7catsandcounting

What percentage of people who give birth are transmen anyway? Surely it's so womanly, they'd want to do their best to avoid it. If they've medically transitioned, it's got to be quite a challenge, hasn't it?

Same reason most transwomen want to keep their penises I guess.

@pumpkinbump Oh, I can't even handle the thought of that. The idea of MAPs garnering sympathy is just too much. It's all too much. Ignorance was bliss. It really was. I can't sleep at night after reading Abigail Shrier. Awful.

It's in the Daily Telegraph too: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/09/midwives-told-stop-using-terms-breastfeeding-breastmilk/

How the heck can this bit be justified...what change the signage?

'Brighton and Sussex University Hospitals (BSUH) NHS Trust is the first in the country to formally implement a gender inclusive language policy for its maternity services department — which will now be known as "perinatal services".

@NiceGerbil

I must admit i don't understand why breastfeeding is so awful when men have breast tissue and can get breast cancer.

Breasts seem to be a massive deal for trans people (and society in general).

This is the bit i dont get

Really dont care if someone wants to call what THEY are doing as chestfeeding ...crack on

But why?

The document says they are going for an inclusive approach- pregnant women and people. It doesn't read very well but I don't mind it. It does indeed include everyone without erasing women.

The breasts thing.

For girls and women breasts are very culturally loaded, they're so sexualised, fetishised really but a fetish seen as normal.

For girls growing up, growing breasts is when they stop getting treated as children and start getting leered at. Girls who are early developers and large breasted women and girls get a lot of shit.

For trans women having breasts seems to be hugely important.

For non binary girls, it's all binders and looking forward to double mastectomy. Non binary, not trans men.

I suspect all of this is why breast feeding is on the no no list. Even though men have breast tissue.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but it's exploded all of a sudden. The ridiculous notion of it all, and NHS, schools, universities are buying it. People getting away with saying 9 year olds can consent to sex. The justice system forcing rape victims to refer to their MALE rapists with a penis in court as 'HER'. There's a LOT of money involved. And girls (some not all, trans men) have been the victim in all this hence the 4000% increase in FtM transition.

It seems to be phrased as "in addition to" rather than "instead of"
Which is fine,imo.

The problem is, it is on the heels so much erasing, dehumanising words and actions on the say so of a particularly vociferous lobby, which doesn't even have the mandate of many of whom they claim to speak for.

Maybe we all should do small little things every day.
If a drop down form asks for Gender, we put Other and in the comment box write sex = female. I saw that on another thread and ot makes sense.

Can anyone think of another?

NiceGerbil, I think women who are angry are not “frothing”.

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

I think it's quite simple. Transwomen who want to be accepted as real women can't breastfeed. Transmen who have that their breasts removed can't breastfeed.

So these orgs are tampering in/ reinforcing (unintentionally) a whole bunch of cultural stuff that causes a load of often confusing feelings for women.

I love a good froth OP and I was just getting into it when I read the actual document.

Can't you see that misleading posts on this are very unhelpful?

However you slice it, ‘in addition’ or ‘men have breasts/chests too’, it’s pedantic wordplay and it’s a load of bollox. The overriding narrative is clear and completely insane. Bowing out now.

@hangaround

As far as I am aware, it's not intended to replace current language, but to be used in addition to, where appropriate.

Midwives, like anyone else in a caring role are encouraged to be inclusive. That doesn't automatically mean not using terms like "breastfeeding" or "woman" it means treating people as individuals- asking for pronouns and preferences. So if for example, a transgender man would prefer terms like "breast" are not used, "chest feeding" may be used as an alternative.

Which is ridiculous because men have breast tissue just like women do.

@NiceGerbil

The document says they are going for an inclusive approach- pregnant women and people. It doesn't read very well but I don't mind it. It does indeed include everyone without erasing women.

The breasts thing.

For girls and women breasts are very culturally loaded, they're so sexualised, fetishised really but a fetish seen as normal.

For girls growing up, growing breasts is when they stop getting treated as children and start getting leered at. Girls who are early developers and large breasted women and girls get a lot of shit.

For trans women having breasts seems to be hugely important.

For non binary girls, it's all binders and looking forward to double mastectomy. Non binary, not trans men.

I suspect all of this is why breast feeding is on the no no list. Even though men have breast tissue.

Fair enough, but what about women, who account for 51% of the population? The woman who don't have a problem calling them breasts, because that's what they are. Women are being erased when they can no longer be referred to as mothers. Call yourself what you like, but don't have the gall to change language that affects others.