Midwives told to stop using terms such as 'breastfeeding' and 'breastmilk'

[MissMoped]

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

[quote lifeturnsonadime]The wonderful Joanna Cherry has spoken out in the House of Commons today about the erasure of the word mother, and the use of the term chest feeding. This is a must watch.

twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1359921849619140614?s=20[/quote]
Thank you for posting this lifeturnsonadime and thank you Joanna Cherry for speaking so clearly and courageously!

“**As I’ve said repeatedly upthread, referring to mothers and partners is alienating for lesbian couples - if you spend time speaking to them about their experiences of maternity care it’s often really sad. You can be a mother and not be the one giving birth. If they feel excluded from the language used and don’t access maternity care because they are concerned about how they’ll be treated or spoken to, that’s terrible - and it happens.”

In the context of maternity care though the person carrying the baby is the mother aren’t they?! I understand that the baby may be raised by two women who both take the role as mother but only one person is actually carrying the baby and receiving the maternity care....the other person is her partner.

Daisies she is so brave. The threat made to her by the male member of the SNP was corrective rape.

She has faced so much in the last two weeks but is showing that she will not stand down.

We cannot let our words be changed by stealth.

Yes, here's to Joanna Cherry and all those gutys Women who 'talk too much' - thank you!

*gutsy. ffs.

@lifeturnsonadime

Daisies she is so brave. The threat made to her by the male member of the SNP was corrective rape.

She has faced so much in the last two weeks but is showing that she will not stand down.

We cannot let our words be changed by stealth.

What was the threat?

TammySwanson2 - firstly I love your user name!

It must be really hard to deal with what you are dealing with at work.

Lesbians are really affected by the trans ideology that has led to the language change that is being promoted in the NHS. The same ideology says that lesbians should not be same sex attracted but same gender attracted, so lesbians who won't consider transwomen have been deemed transphobic.

I posted a twitter link earlier on this page by a lady called Joanna Cherry, (she is a lesbian) she has been dismissed from her front bench position on the SNP due to the fact she is arguing for our language to be retained, which is seen as transphobic as it disagrees with the TWAW mantra.

I don't think it is correct that lesbians are advocating for these changes. Although, of course, it is absolutely right to be polite to both lesbian couples in the maternity context and to use the language preferred by transmen.

Happy to add that Brighton is indeed batshit, so this doesn’t surprise me.

Exactly AIMD. It's really not that complicated.

Using gender neutral language would alienate you. Using existing language and adding gender neutral language should not. Anyone on the other side of this would argue that you’re being unreasonable to argue that additional language is alienating.

But adding dehumanising "gender neutral" language DOES alienate me, and thousands, if not millions, of other women. I could decide that all men going for prostate screening should be referred to as men or Huffhaars in order to include those men who prefer to be called Huffhaars. Millions of men who do not like the idea that they are not just men might complain. I can argue that they are being "unreasonable" to not accept my invented phrasing to include the 3 men in the country who prefer to be referred to as Huffhaars during their prostate exam.
This is how completely insane this is, and the only reason so many women have rolled over and accepted all this shite is precisely because they are not men, and are trained to be "nice" Well fuck that.

This is a media report of the threat www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/04/man-charged-over-vicious-threat-sent-to-snp-mp-joanna-cherry

Joanna has stated on twitter that the threat was corrective rape.

The First Minister has remained silent whist denouncing 'transphobia' which has not been defined but appears to amount to seeking to retain women's rights.

@TammySwansonTwo

Using gender neutral language would alienate you. Using existing language and adding gender neutral language should not. Anyone on the other side of this would argue that you’re being unreasonable to argue that additional language is alienating.

As I’ve said repeatedly upthread, referring to mothers and partners is alienating for lesbian couples - if you spend time speaking to them about their experiences of maternity care it’s often really sad. You can be a mother and not be the one giving birth. If they feel excluded from the language used and don’t access maternity care because they are concerned about how they’ll be treated or spoken to, that’s terrible - and it happens.

“Mothers and Partners” is the opposite of alienating; it allows the partner to be anyone. Another mother, a father, a lover, a friend, anyone.

It is a generic term designed to be as inclusive as possible. What’s the alternative? “Mothers and mothers/fathers/parent/partner/those who do not wish to be identified by their sex”.

Mothers and partners means anyone standing by the person who has given birth. Don’t be so precious.

Joanna cherry is a lesbian woman

The threats to her were of a sexual nature

The threats to her in 2019 she had to have police protection

She is a staunch feminist and supporter of women and girls

@littlbrowndog

Joanna cherry is a lesbian woman

The threats to her were of a sexual nature

The threats to her in 2019 she had to have police protection

She is a staunch feminist and supporter of women and girls

Yes can someone link me to the actual information though? A PP said a member of the SNP threatened her. I can only find articles about a "man" threatening her and, of course, with little detail. Can someone provide a link with more information? I didn't know about this.

TIA

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/man-arrested-for-sexual-violence-threats-against-joanna-cherry-gvxg88rqj

Great great speech by her.

Throwing sunlight on the erasure of the word women and the homophobia against lesbians and the fact that so many women didn’t know about the discarding of the word woman

www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2021/02/joanna-cherry-s-diary-why-i-was-sacked-coming-out-gay-aids-pandemic-and

This article clarifies that the man charged was a member of the SNP.

The next day I learned that the man charged with threatening me is a member of the SNP - this is taken from the article.

Joanna herself mentioned corrective rape in a tweet.

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Thanks Jamie I suspect when voters learn that the background to my sacking is an 18 month campaign of abuse from men topped off with a threat of corrective rape from a party member they may take a different view of my treatment if not their voting preference^

It is awful if some people are feeling alienated and badly treated.

I just must add one thing to that. I felt appallingly treated giving birth to my youngest. I was under care for recurrent pregnancy loss and those doctors were amazing. I felt slightly reduced movement the last few weeks, unwell and had problems with incontinence. Those doctors asked for me to be induced.

Once my care was taken over by the delivery team, it was a nightmare. They questioned why I should be induced (I was being selfish and trying to harm my baby) and refused to induce me (turned out I was leaking amniotic fluid and all water was gone). Labour started and I came straight in. They told me to go home (1cm). I said I was in tremendous pain. I was accused of being too sensitive and left in the waiting room. After one hour, I said that the baby was coming (my third) and they refused to examine me. After 15min my husband managed to get them to take a look and all hell broke lose as I was giving birth in the waiting room. After that they were ok - after I was on antibiotics for infection.

I don’t blame them. They are super busy and understaffed. But if I had been a minority group, I might have thought that it was because of that my treatment was so bad.

Thanks @lifeturnsonadime

Mothers and partners means anyone standing by the person who has given birth. Don’t be so precious.

I’m sorry, but I find your comment extremely ironic. Services, at a time of great stress, are trying to find a way that ensures everybody feels able to access maternity services. Some of that language represents you and some doesn’t and you won’t stand for it - it’s not me being precious or the same sex couples I described.

Say for example you are promoting a class only for those giving birth - if you say mother, that includes those mothers whose child it is biologically, but who are not the one who’s pregnant. They are not just partners - they are also mothers.

And @CoffeeTeaChocolate I’m truly you had a negative experience. I had one too which is why I decided to get into working in this area. However, now that I speak to the individuals affected, they are not just assuming that poor treatment is due to their sexuality / identity - it’s clear from what they say that it’s not an assumption, it’s quite blatant at times.

It’s very easy to talk about it in the abstract but talking to the individuals affected, being assumed to be a friend, being asked when the father is coming, not being given access to NICU because the staff expect a male partner etc. It’s awful.

It’s very easy to talk about it in the abstract but talking to the individuals affected, being assumed to be a friend, being asked when the father is coming, not being given access to NICU because the staff expect a male partner etc. It’s awful.

But the language we have doesn't need to change to address these things, which I agree are awful.

There can be fairly straightforward processes in place to identify partners etc. without changing language. Some form of pass for NICU that could be given at community midwife level before the need arises would solve that one quite easily. Not everyone has the father as their birthing partner anyway, some pick their mum or a friend.

I'm not sure the word father was once mentioned. I was asked about where my partner was which is an inclusive phrase.

I don’t understand this really. Lesbian couples have been having babies together for decades

Why has this not been addressed before ?

And this shouldn’t mean the erasure of the word women

The woman who gives birth, thereby putting her health and sometimes her life on the line, is the mother.
I know lesbian parents who between themselves have agreed their own words for each other and for their roles - they both still know who the mother is.
Of course Maternity services should be sensitive but they must be allowed to focus on the mother and to use words that reflect reality.

Say for example you are promoting a class only for those giving birth - if you say mother, that includes those mothers whose child it is biologically, but who are not the one who’s pregnant. They are not just partners - they are also mothers.

But the whole point of maternity services is that they exist for those giving birth. They aren't there to address the complexities of modern family set-ups and they definitely aren't there to confuse and misuse the language around motherhood/birth.

I appreciate this is in addition to the word Woman, mother and breasts but it does erase something. In saying pregnant people, chest feeding and birthing person, it could be said it is attempting to erase the biological reality that only women- natal females, can gestate, give birth and produce breast milk. And therefore is another example of encroaching upon women as a sex based class.

Many women feel the equality act which protects women's sex based rights is being undermind by the current zeitgeist of transactivism and feel alienated by the negating of "woman" as a biological sex.
I certainly feel alienated by the term chest feeding being present in maternity (or "perinatal") services; particularly as it is entirely unnecessary for reasons already mentioned by so many others in the thread.

I can't keep up with all this stuff...non gender, binary free..breast binding...i reckon its all a fad....they will move onto something else soon after wasting millions on consultants !