Midwives told to stop using terms such as 'breastfeeding' and 'breastmilk'

[MissMoped]

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

And women’s health becomes what?

'people's' health. It becomes 'people's' health. Because little by little the 'women' aspect is eroded and the 'women' who feel it is ok because it is inclusive are not looking at the direction this is taking and the future.

Were all 'women' already experiencing equality in health care? Women from every demographic? Plus It is very worrying to think that for so long medicines were developed and tested on men and we were just 'small men' for the purpose.

Why is 'people's' health better than 'women's' health when it leads to confusion statistics and communication? I always feel that those who are happy to dismiss this often do not consider the impact on those with less communication ability and less education than themselves. Imagine handing a leaflet to a girl just entering into puberty talking about 'people menstruating' and 'people getting pregnant'.

Telling half the story using this ambiguous language is harmful indeed.

A mother who has give birth and is breastfeeding is self-indulgent in the extreme to then decide "she" is a man. For goodness sake.

If you really want to be a man you'll have a hysterectomy and not have kids or periods or any of the baggage that comes with being a woman. Can't have it both ways.

They were told to use language that's appropriate for the patient. In the case of non-trans women, that's breastfeeding. Of course the right-wing media will say otherwise, and the GC crowd will lap it up. It's an attempt to be inclusive of trans men

Exactly
As for this They were told to use language that's appropriate for the patient bears repeating - appropriate to the patient!!
So they're not calling you a chest feeder then, are they if you don't want them to.
As it is appropriate to the patient.
Them saying it to a trans man (biologically female before anyone gets confused or faux confused) doesn't mean they wouldn't refer to me as my preferred terms.
So I'm not "erased" or whatever, am I.
It just sounds like it's more inclusive.

(So I'm not "erased" or whatever, am I.
It just sounds like it's more inclusive*

Then why aren't men having to do it.

@ErrolTheDragon

In the case of non-trans women, that's breastfeeding.

Non-trans women?
But breastfeeding is the correct term for any human feeding their young. Men have breasts too (they just don't work). It already is a 'gender neutral' term. As everyone in the real world knows.

I'm not sure why you are confused by the term non-trans women. I bet you don't like the term cis women if you are true to form, so I used "non-trans" to avoid offending delicate sensibilities.

No, most men don't refer to their chest as their breast, and don't think of themselves as having brreasts.

Many trans men prefer the term chestfeeding. Why not respect that? It does you no harm whatsoever, and is inclusive.

It's like the reactionaries who fought long and hard against gendered language. It's a tough battle, but it continues.

@poppycat10

A mother who has give birth and is breastfeeding is self-indulgent in the extreme to then decide "she" is a man. For goodness sake.

If you really want to be a man you'll have a hysterectomy and not have kids or periods or any of the baggage that comes with being a woman. Can't have it both ways.

👏👏👏👏👏. Absofuckinglutely. Once again, men wanting it all and kicking off until they get it all.

They’re still renaming their maternity department @Mockolate. That applies to all patients.

They'll have said non trans women because the MN talk guidelines doesn't let you use the word c * s on here.

Misleading language is never appropriate.

A document that mashes up the separate concepts of sex and gender identity helps no-one.

@Mockolate

They'll have said non trans women because the MN talk guidelines doesn't let you use the word c * s on here.

Perhaps natal woman is acceptable? Or is that too close to just women for you?

I bet you don't like the term cis women if you are true to form, so I used "non-trans" to avoid offending delicate sensibilities.

Did you heck. Why didn’t you just use the correct term, women. And if talking about transwomen, say transwomen, which is what they are.

It's like the reactionaries who fought long and hard against gendered language.
Uh?

@saraclara

My (born) male friend had breast cancer. It was called breast cancer throughout. Not chest cancer. So I have no idea why breast feeding should be deemed not inclusive.

I also had a male friend who got breast cancer. That's what he called it when he wrote (it was the late 80s) to tell me. It's what they called it when they gave him a double mastectomy.

It's what they called it when they told him it had metastasised from his breasts to other parts of his body.

When he died, his wife and grown up children (it took him 17 years to eventually die, living for 5 years with bone cancer and becoming, to use his own words in am email to me, "a shrivelled little husk of the man I was before I got breast cancer") walked behind his coffin at the funeral I attended. At which I wept uncontrollably.

For my male friend who got breast cancer.

This latest business is absolutely fucking nonsense, designed entirely to erase the language women use about ourselves. And some women are happily supporting it.

The problems in maternity services U.K. and down the country demonstrate they have much bigger issues they need to get to grips with- mortality rates of BAME expectant mothers for example. This could be a distraction technique to avoid scrutiny on these serious problems in maternity services.

@SquishySquirmy

So is mastitis now a chest infection? Because (especially at the moment), I would have thought that "chestpain" and "breastpain" indicate very different issues.

I realise this was pages and pages ago, but very very good point!

Perhaps natal woman is acceptable? Or is that too close to just women for you?

Why would it be "too close to women" for me? Was just saying why they'd have said an alternate word. Natal woman would work just fine too

I'm not sure why you are confused by the term non-trans women. I bet you don't like the term cis women if you are true to form, so I used "non-trans" to avoid offending delicate sensibilities.

You're just setting out to be offensive, aren't you?

We are not a subset of our own sex.

Woman - adult human female. A contingent fact about my reproductive biology. Not an inner feeling. Not possession of a lady soul or a lady brain. Just a contingent fact about biology. Of no bearing on my humanity or worth, one way or the other, but unfortunately, with a huge weight of history which means it's frequently weaponised by misogynistic men to impose a second-class status on me.

And the latest incarnation of this long, sorry history of misogynistic men trying to impose second class status on me is lefty woke-beard misogynistic men trying to take away the words which allow me to discuss my biology, and talk about the history of my sex, and talk about the way my biology has been weaponised against me by men like those woke-beards.

Meet the new bosses. Same as the old bosses. (Just with an added layer of "this is what a feminist looks like" t-shirt which they think will stop you noticing their misogyny).

YANBU. It’s so offensive to women, awful erasure of females and a nonsense.

Oh, I'm not in the least confused about the term 'non-trans woman' (that was a not a ). Nor am I confused about people who use this term.

I'm not sure why you are confused by the term non-trans women. I bet you don't like the term cis women if you are true to form, so I used "non-trans" to avoid offending delicate sensibilities

The irony

So offensive and rude dadjoke

I am not a non trans woman or a cis woman

My daughter. Is not a non trans girl or a cis girl

I am a woman and she is a girl

We both say no to you deciding what we are called

NO

Many trans men prefer the term chestfeeding. Why not respect that? It does you no harm whatsoever, and is inclusive.

Because it is misleading and confusing. Because it might also be seen as referring to a type of feeding where someone is allowing an infant to suck on a nipple with a tube beside the nipple that actually supplies the milk.

Just because the 'men' you don't know don't refer to their breasts as breasts, doesn't mean that they are not breasts and that it refers to a very specific location. In my acquaintance, some men do refer to the things sitting on their chests as breasts, complete with nipples!

'Breast' feeding has NO ambiguity at all. It is very specific and already is gender neutral. It also allows very clear communication. There is enough pain associated with breastfeeding (not sure you have experienced the very physical pain that can come with it, or indeed the emotional pain) to start dictating to women that they have to use the term chestfeeding in a breastfeeding group set up for their support. And to not have information referring to it as breastfeeding making you feel even more detached from reality in those early stages after giving birth.

Calling it 'chestfeeding' has a tendency to depersonalise it for many women (read their opinions everywhere). I suffered enough detachment from my breasts after birth that if I had been seeing it referred to as such and been told I had to refer to it as such, I would have simply stopped trying.

Just like the young male registrar inferred by telling me that I was a geriatric mother and the chances were against me being successful.

How is using 'chestfeeding' inclusive for women who felt (and I still feel over a decade on) like me?

^So they're not calling you a chest feeder then, are they if you don't want them to.
As it is appropriate to the patient.^

Well the guidance says that they need to use the phrase chest feeder in documents and comms. Documents and comms which are given to and aimed at women. So yes they are referring to their exclusively female audience as chest feeders.

If trans women want to be women, then isn’t it more inclusive to use female terms?

And yes a would say a lot of people feel that cis women is horribly marginalising

@CherryValanc

Has there been any change to words that refer to men and male?

Obviously not with birth (though non-birthing partner) but within the NHS.

Yep, I've yet to see anything at all where they're changing male "language" to be "inclusive" I've seen numerous examples of woman and female language being targeted though. Why is that?