Midwives told to stop using terms such as 'breastfeeding' and 'breastmilk'

[MissMoped]

because it’s not gender inclusive language, I believe with particular reference to the transexual debate.

This is at Brighton and Sussex nhs trust btw, good to know NHS money is being spent wisely btw, poring over the “incorrect” use of language.

The word “mother” apparently should not be used on its own; instead “mother or birthing parent” (um, isn’t that a mother?).

Breast milk and breastfeeding is to be replace by “breast/chest milk” or “milk from the feeding parent”. “Woman” should be replaced with “woman or person”.

Gobsmacked.

The thing is, this is part of an ongoing removal of the word woman and words that only relate to women e.g. mothers, breast feeding, on the grounds of "inclusion". So its not just this, its also

Its UN Women tweeting "Trans women are women at the end of the day. Every woman is a woman. Women are multifaceted, intergenerational, international. They are limitless, formless ... women are the world.”

Its newspapers reporting crimes committed by transwomen as female crimes

Its the replacement of the word 'sex' which is the protected characteristic under the equality act with 'gender' which is not. Public bodies have a duty to record data under the protected characteristics and yet sex is the only one they seem perfectly happy to substitute another word for and so their data becomes meaningless

its allowing TW to compete in womens sports despite their huge physical advantages

Its allowing TW to take places on schemes designed to improve the representation of women in areas of public life where they have been under represented

its about movember being able to run adverts that say men while womens charities get piled on for using the word woman

so its not just about this issue in itself, its about this issue as part of a much wider and far reaching deliberate movement to erase the words relating specifically to women whilst leaving anything to do with men alone

Mother is one of the most oldest words in the human language.
Is the word mother only allowed to be used when it’s a TW?

How often do we see a rider added to the beginning or end of a document along the lines of:
'Please note that the term .... (let's say 'chairman') is used throughout to refer to both men and women.'

This kind of concession has been deemed good enough for women since forever. A similar arrangement could be adopted here too, so why isn't it enough?

I encourage everyone to read the actual document and not be whipped up into a frenzy of indignation based on the OP's original statement

I read the full document before I commented but thanks for being patronsing. I noted as others have the numerous inputs from trans lobby groups and the lack of input from women's groups.

You can't produce a document like this and then say "oh silly women its just gender additive" when its coupled with a threat of disciplinary action if the HCP gets it wrong accidentally. I note with interest that the trust's concerns about protected characteristics doesn't extend to sex. No matching statement for misogyny of course because that isn't a "hate crime" its just BAU.

All this at a time when women find it increasingly difficult to access basic services and poor and minority womene are disproportionately disadvantaged in huge numbers.

Mother is one of the most oldest words in the human language

Huh?

@yetanotherusernameAgain

Mother is one of the most oldest words in the human language

Huh?

According to some linguists, yes. An easy read that gives some explanation:

www.parent.com/blogs/conversations/mama-is-most-universal-word

Sorry I left a bit out of my post:
'Please note that the word 'women' is used throughout this document to refer to all females, including those who do not identify as women.'

Or shorter: 'Please note that the word 'women' includes transmen wherever it is used in this document'

That's what I call a compromise.
The additive language (e.g. 'women and....') that is suggested as a compromise is misleading.

So.... when a woman has delivered her baby, does she then get transferred immediately to the 'Antenatal' ward? And does that mean that the next women who is turned away from coming in should be able to say 'I self-determine that I am in labour and need to come in?'. When does the right to self-determinism end in medicine at the moment?

While I have read this report, I am in the mind, due to the way they treated a rape victim's request for a female HCP as a published exampled of transphobia, that the gender-additive language is likely to be done away with in a short period of time. Either informally or just pushed aside in the next few years.

I am very much in favour of 'additive' language.

But this report does not seem to be well balanced in the sponsorship of women's groups. On top of that, the guidance prioritises 'Human milk' above breast milk. This becomes ambiguous when you consider that transwomen can, with lots of intervention of the chemical kind when women are completely discouraged from taking chemicals while breastfeeding, produce milk. So, they technically can produce a substance that has some of the components but a whole lot of other chemicals and does not change to suit the babies development.

I have never understood the need to call it 'chest' feeding as males and females have breasts. It is still reduced to it biological term. Terms such as 'milk from the feeding parent' is completely meaningless. It is nonsense. I was mixed feeding for a while, this terminology lack definition. Fine, when definition is not needed, but useless for when it is.

If a NHS Trust can publicly use a women's rightful request as an example for bigotry or transphobia, and have not included women's groups in this consultation as balance, what level of trust should this document receive?

@NiceGerbil

This is good too

'Do

have sex every 2 to 3 days without using contraception – make sure sperm enters the vagina

try to have sex around the time you are ovulating – this is usually 12 to 16 days before your period starts

try to maintain a healthy weight, cut down or stop drinking alcohol and do not smoke – it can help if your partner does this too'

Sooooo. The man could be the one to lose weight etc and the woman can maybe consider it?

Removing the word woman renders it drivel. This is the main page on our national health information site about conceiving a baby.

I mean what a load of old shit.

They are relying on people interpreting what they mean. Understanding that when they say people they mean women.

That is a terrible approach for a health information service that is supposed to be clear to the largest number of people.

Agree gerbil

They are erasing the word women everywhere

Yet the adverts I see for prostate cancer uses the word man

The terms chestmilk and chestfeeding make me feel physically sick.

And yes kit19

erasing women and girls.

This is absolutely horrible. There’s absolutely no need. This looks like that trust has a trans midwife with a bee in her bonnet.

@IfNot

Wording such as 'Women and people' is not only unnecessary, it is misleading as it implies incorrectly that there are other people who get pregnant and give birth. Exactly. Adding words my arse. They add the new words- mother AND birthing people, and a couple of years ( months? this campaign seems to be rocket fuelled) later birthing people replaces mother. Everyone has a mother. A biological mother. That mother may be absent, terrible or wonderful but everyone came out of a mother, a woman. Why are they so Hell bent on removing female biology from language? And why are some women saying they don't mind? "Oh, it's alright, I don't mind including the new language, I'll move over, it doesn't harm me..." Wake up!! Changing language to remove women from a thing only women can do harms all of us. And God yes to the pp who mention Black women's woeful maternity care . Spend the money on fixing that, not mangling your comms NHS!

Yes to all of this 👏👏

Compare and contrast. Macmillan ‘people get Cervical Cancer but men get Penile Cancer (and Prostate cancer). Interestingly I would suggest that ALL men know they have a penis so may be at risk of penile cancer but a study showed that 44% of women don’t know they have a cervix.

Which group is being out at risk here by making language around health issues LESS clear? For whose benefit??

I contacted Macmillan and they ignored my concerns about clarity of language and are apparently being inclusive in the language on the website.

And btw I haven’t just cherry picked on that screenshot, the word woman has been replaced by people.

BSUH employs 2 gender-inclusivity specialist midwives (sorry “birth workers”... because why would I want to know whether the person caring for me in labour is a registered HCP with 3 years study or any Tom, Dick and Harry calling themself a “birth worker”). They are both “non-binary”... so that’s middle class white people identifying themselves into a minority. How many specialist midwives do BSUH employ to actually deliver on the horrendous health inequalities experienced by BAME women? How many infant feeding midwives to help women who are having actual real (not imagined, not feelings) tangible problems with breastfeeding? How many times has the maternity unit closed or women have been left alone for hours in labour or sent home inappropriately because of staff-shortages... but they can spare 2 midwives to sit in an office writing this indulgent nonsense! Even in maternity, women really don’t matter do we?!

@Stompythedinosaur

But the whole point of the inclusive language means you aren't a breastfeeding mother... You're a chest feeding person....

You aren't using inclusive language.

I can both define myself as a mother and not feel threatened by the professionals who I work with using more neutral language. No one is trying to stop me referring to myself in the way that fits for me.

You can define yourself as a unicorn if you like.

But it doesn't change the fact that females and their identities and rights are being eroded.

How many articles and such like,do you see where transmen are campaigning for prostate checks to be given to "prostate havers" rather than men?

Oh wait.. you don't.

Additive language “women, transmen and afab non binary people” when used repeatedly in health and possibly other services surely implies that those three groups have an awful lot in common. Eventually it may become obvious that we are all the same type of human being and part of one cohesive category.

In order to avoid this there must ultimately be pressure to eliminate all woman centred language from maternity and women’s health services.

So maternity becomes perinatal and moves towards centring the baby which could have many unintended (or perhaps intended) negative consequences for women.

And women’s health becomes what? Maybe it just disappears as a concept?

@MixedUpFiles

Embracing the power of the female body was a key part of getting through a very difficult pregnancy for me. Also for managing to breastfeed. I visualized a long tradition of strong women nourishing their young and creating the human race from nothing. It’s incredibly important to me that my experience is as female-centered. I have to imagine that I am not the only woman that needs that feeling of female energy to get her through the tough moments of being a new mother. This change in language could do real harm. N

I don’t believe that you are alone in feeling this way MixedUpFiles. I felt it too.

And women’s health becomes what? Maybe it just disappears as a concept?

Well it's an easy way to solve issues . You cant fix what you cant see. When you erase sex you make sexism disappear.

Because now random things happen to random people and everyone can pretend that they don't know who or what.

No, of course they were not told not to use those terms.

They were told to use language that's appropriate for the patient. In the case of non-trans women, that's breastfeeding. Of course the right-wing media will say otherwise, and the GC crowd will lap it up. It's an attempt to be inclusive of trans men.

"When caring for cis women it is good practice to use terminology that is meaningful and appropriate to the individual; this may include terms such as woman, mother or breastfeeding."

"For us, a gender-additive approach means using gender-neutral language alongside the language of womanhood, in order to ensure that everyone is represented and included."

YANBU.
Humans are mammals fgs. What distinguishes us from other groups of vertebrates is precisely our ability to feed our young. In humans the body part that allows this is the breast, which is located on our chests. In other mammals it may be elsewhere.

'Chest feeding' sounds more like what some birds do to me.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_milk

@DadJoke chestfeeding is a biologically inaccurate description of what happens, health organisations should not use inaccurate or incorrect language in order to make people feel better.
And as has been said upthread gender inclusive language ends up replacing woman centred language. Perinatal is replacing maternity.

In the case of non-trans women, that's breastfeeding.

Non-trans women?
But breastfeeding is the correct term for any human feeding their young. Men have breasts too (they just don't work). It already is a 'gender neutral' term. As everyone in the real world knows.

Add to that NHS using the term ‘cis’ women. That is a term based in ideology, it’s not based in biological accuracy which is all they should be concerning themselves with. The problems in maternity services U.K. and down the country demonstrate they have much bigger issues they need to get to grips with- mortality rates of BAME expectant mothers for example.