Can we take a vote.....who will be following lockdown measures after May?

[DuchessofHastings1]

There was a thread in Coronavirus but I wanted to do a vote to see actual numbers.

Vaccine roll out has been impressive. Our government seem to be digging out of the hole they got us in.
The over 50s (who count for 99%) of Covid deaths and the majority of hospital admissions will be vaccinated by end of May.

Who will be sticking to the rules once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated?

YANBU - NO
YABU - YES

@DownstairsMixup - I think you made your point.

@pollypocket variants are going to continue all the time, viruses mutate. Only today I've heard them talking about the Bristol variant then the Manchester variant...are they aiming for one for every city now? Every country? It will always be here. I'm not going to hide away for ever, sorry.

OP of course the situation has changed, when the Government spoke about the things you've mentioned we didn't know what the impact of these new variants are in terms of the vaccine programme, now we do and it's serious.

When the Government mentioned the points you've noted, they never actually said what restrictions would be lifted and when - you put 2 and 2 together and made 25. You can make your own rules up and 'disent' of course you can, but it's the numb nuts like that which are prolonging it, you may as well chop off your foot as well whilst you're at it.

In terms of your question on mutations, no is the short answer. But if idiots like you and other people on this thread stop following measures whilst they're still in place then yes. Mutations happen when the virus is allowed to run rampant and infection levels are high and lots of people are seriously ill, it's no coincidence that the we've seen the mutations, here and in Brazil and South Africa.

If countries are allowed to control the virus - through measures (and people sticking to the measures) and get as many as their whole adult population vaccinated (not just the over 50's, now we know the vaccines stop the spread we need to get the 'spreaders' vaccinated as well.) then this will hopefully slow the rate of vaccine evading mutations down and will be managed by an annual vac or booster.

As I understand there's the hope of better therapeutic treatments coming down the line later on in the year and the Government will be hoping to hold back the tide until then also.

@LadyMayoGoodway

Oh so you’re a clairvoyant OP, sorry my bad. Any chance you can let me know whose going to win the FA cup that month as well?

I have no idea anywhere in this thread where I have suggested I know the future. Question is purely hypothetical.

Sorry your sarcastic bitchy remark went to waste.

@LadyMayoGoodway

OP of course the situation has changed, when the Government spoke about the things you've mentioned we didn't know what the impact of these new variants are in terms of the vaccine programme, now we do and it's serious.

When the Government mentioned the points you've noted, they never actually said what restrictions would be lifted and when - you put 2 and 2 together and made 25. You can make your own rules up and 'disent' of course you can, but it's the numb nuts like that which are prolonging it, you may as well chop off your foot as well whilst you're at it.

In terms of your question on mutations, no is the short answer. But if idiots like you and other people on this thread stop following measures whilst they're still in place then yes. Mutations happen when the virus is allowed to run rampant and infection levels are high and lots of people are seriously ill, it's no coincidence that the we've seen the mutations, here and in Brazil and South Africa.

If countries are allowed to control the virus - through measures (and people sticking to the measures) and get as many as their whole adult population vaccinated (not just the over 50's, now we know the vaccines stop the spread we need to get the 'spreaders' vaccinated as well.) then this will hopefully slow the rate of vaccine evading mutations down and will be managed by an annual vac or booster.

As I understand there's the hope of better therapeutic treatments coming down the line later on in the year and the Government will be hoping to hold back the tide until then also.

Idiots like me

OP of course the situation has changed, when the Government spoke about the things you've mentioned we didn't know what the impact of these new variants are in terms of the vaccine programme, now we do and it's serious.

Coming from a person who thinks our government and their flock of scientists at their disposal didn't consider new variants and strains from the start.
Boris stood on that podium and told us it was only when a vaccine is produced we can go back to normality. Protect the elderly and vulnerable, protect the NHS, that was his mantra.

Now they will be vaccinated by May. Fewer deaths, fewer hospital admissions. And now the new narrative? Mutant variants bla bla which they anticipated from the start.
Virus mutate all the time as did the flu. There will hundred variants so we should all cower in fear and cut off society whenever they discover a new one?
You can certainly live your life in fear of variants but others won't.
The under 50s have had their lives and businesses ruined now for a year and half for a virus that has in a million chance of killing them. We done it to protect the elderly and the vulnerable. They will be vaccinated by May so why the hell should we sacrifice our lives any longer. It's our children who are suffering.

Yes OP sadly idiots like you, there’s no point even carrying on a grown up conversation as you just won’t get it. But here goes.

They never expected the virus to mutate to such a degree and so fast, that degree being one that will evade the response of the vaccines we currently have available. Some of the adult population may be vaccinated by May, which would have been amazing however it looks like the vaccines they’ll have available to use between now and May will be next to useless against the South African strain and if we allow that to get a foothold we’ll be back to square one. I don’t know what’s so hard to comprehend.

If we can hold back the tide and get some of the spreaders vaccinated with vaccines that are somewhat effective against those variants with mutations to the spike protein that will slow down the spread of this new variant and ease pressures on people dying by which time we’ll have boosters available for those vaccines that were not as effective, as I said there’s also a lot of new therapeutic treatments coming on line but that won’t be until later in the year either.

So you can follow the measures that are in place at any one time and help get it under control, or you can carry on being ignorant and shooting yourself and the rest of us in the foot.

Also as an aside do you only think it’s only the under 50’s who’ve had their lives and business ruined?!? I mean plenty of over 50’s are dead - doesn’t get much more life ruining than that does it.

Also yes there’ll be 100’s of variants but not all will evade the effect of the vaccines and as I said before slowing/stopping the spread stops/solas these significant mutations.

At least one of the vaccine producers has said they can have a vaccine for new strains ready quickly- I think autumn was the goal for the SA variant. Now there's effective vaccines they can be adapted pretty quickly like the flu jab is done every year.
It's a good sign as viruses mutate, it's how they survive. It's not in the viruses interest to become more deadly so there's every chance any new strains will be less severe.

I'll continue to follow guidelines like face coverings and social distancing, however I feel that some of the other restrictions should be lifted when the vulnerable have been vaccinated. Not necessarily business as usual because filling pubs isn't in our best interests but there are other areas where the negative impacts of lockdowns and restrictions has now largely negated the benefits with the young, self employed and poor disproportionately affected.

I'll be sticking to the guidelines and find it really babyish and pathetic when people boast about flouting them.

Ohhhh you rebel - sure all the people intensive care because their rule-breaking neighbours gave them the virus are equally as impressed.

No idea why people can't suck it up for x2 years of their lives to stop people from dying.

Pointless question as nobody knows what the situation will be in May. But with better weather / lighter evenings, and hopefully a further reduction in cases combined with more people vaccinated I fully expect to see at a minimum outdoor meetups with more than just 2 people for exercise allowed, and outdoor sports like golf and tennis opening up, so it probably won't feel as onerous as it does now.

YANBU

I will bending and breaking the rules when I can get away with it after May.

I'll follow the rules. The reason they have to be fairly strict is that there are always idiots who break them, and others who push them to the limit. The reason pubs have had to close is that people can't use them responsibly.

People who proudly break the rules are no different to the woman who drink drives or the bloke who gropes drunk women in nightclubs. Laws are there for a reason, to protect society from the harm caused by people who can't or won't control themselves.

I think lockdown will ease but travelling abroad won’t. So that rules me out seeing my proper family. Although I have my mum and brother here and I’ll be seeing them and my friends no matter what. This year has been bad enough

@DavidsSchitt

What do you want me to do? Hold the pub landlord hostage and force him to open up, and the band to play, and my mates to attend.

All after storming my way into Primark for a spot of shopping?

People are already NOT following the lockdown in February, I can't see them starting to do it in May

You can't visit pubs, gyms, hairdressers, hotels, cinemas etc if they're not open surely? So it's a moot point, really.

Mutations might well render vaccination useless.

Mutations occur if lack of appropriate measures allows infections to run rife, which can happen despite vaccination.

People who think they can 'go back to normal' in May need to think again.

Of course I'll be following the law.

OP, are there any other laws you fancy breaking? I mean, sure the speed limit and rules around drink driving are a bit inconvenience.

The level of selfishness here is just breathtaking.

@AintOverUntilTheCatLadySings

I'll be sticking to the guidelines and find it really babyish and pathetic when people boast about flouting them.

Ohhhh you rebel - sure all the people intensive care because their rule-breaking neighbours gave them the virus are equally as impressed.

No idea why people can't suck it up for x2 years of their lives to stop people from dying.

People die everyday of multiple reasons.

Thousands die each year from the flu, its estimated around 30 thousand die each year from pneumonia. This has been going on for decades, if we had a lockdown every winter, these deaths could have been prevented but yet we didn't have to shut our lives off then did we?

@Justanotherworkingmom

Of course I'll be following the law.

OP, are there any other laws you fancy breaking? I mean, sure the speed limit and rules around drink driving are a bit inconvenience.

The level of selfishness here is just breathtaking.

How you can compare the laws of breaking speed limits and drink driving to a newly introduced draconian restrictions due to a virus with a 99% recovery rate which has a mean age of 80 is actually beyond me.

*34,963 Deaths with a positive Covid test to 8th November.

28,188 flu & pneumonia average deaths per annum over last five years.

They only show 7,000 flu+pneumonia this year so one suspects you can drop Covid total by about 20,000.

There is still month and half to go for full year figures but even so the figures are revealing especially when you consider the flu total in 2001 was 58,000 estimated and no one really batted an eye.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/adhocs/12267numberofdeathswhereinfluenzaandpneumoniaweretheunderlyingcauseofdeath2015to2019englandandwales

www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/*

This is from a post from the Lockdown Sceptic forum. FACTS supported by national statistics, not conspiracy theories/covid deniers.

This shows two things- Covid death rate statistics in which are given are unreliable and secondly, that people have been dying each year through flu (which we could have prevented with numerous lockdowns) but no one got their knickers in a twist about that did they?

Sigh......this is so tiresome OP.

But also hilarious, a ‘a lockdown sceptic forum’ eh, must correct then 🤣🤣🤣.

Where have you gotten that 34,000 figure from?? I’m not sure that’s correct, I’ve just looked on the ONS website and it said deaths in year to the 4th December for COVID is 69,771 so more than double the 5 year average figure for flu and more than 10,000 more than the 2001 figure you quoted.

What you and these dumbos on these forums don’t understand is this......that the flu figure is with no infection control measures like we have at the moment in place, just letting it run it’s course, the 69,771 figure is with extensive infection control methods in place.......what do you think that figure would be if we hadn’t had extensive measures in place??

You can use all your pseudo science bollocks you want to in terms of how deaths are recorded but how do explain a 20% uplift in deaths in 2020 when compared to the 5 year average?

And you say survivable......but do you know at what cost? There’s 1000’s of people with post viral issues, they can’t work they can’t care for their children, they have little quality of life. And we focus very much on deaths but we don’t look at those who are admitted to hospital and do survive, do you know what COVID does to your body? you’ve got 40 year olds home but on permanent oxygen, people who’ve contracted sepsis and lost limbs and many people whose Kidneys are so ravaged by it they’ll need dialysis for life. Do you understand what that means how poorly that makes you permanently, your life is over as you know. And then there’s simply being brings in intensive care, it can take at least a year to ‘recover’ if not two, but you’ll never be the same again. And these are 30,40,50 year olds with potentially full lives and young families, do you think they deserve to have this taken away from them permanently?

I'll still be following rules, as my condition makes me more vulnerable to Covid, and Covid is very likely to exacerbate my condition, but isn't specifically listed as Group 6 (despite several similar conditions being listed). My GP won't put me into Group 6 so I'm unlikely to get even a first jab before August, and second jab October, so I need to be careful until November. Especially once everyone else is out and about again.