to be utterly shocked and heartbroken at how many intelligent, lovely friends and acquaintances have totally bought in to the radical global conspiracy theories...

[fuschia2000]

Seeing so much conspiracy stuff on Facebook threads, its totally alarming.... the folks can really make a good argument, with pseudo science, lots of data etc but we are looking at radical q'anon right wing conspiracy theories breaking through into the normal discussion groups and online groups.....

Everything is made worse by the sneers thrown at each other. The polarisation.

Nuance has been lost

Lockdowns are necessary to prevent health services being overwhelmed thereby avoiding deaths - of all causes - also lockdowns fuck the economy and ruin livelihoods.

A normal person can see both these things are true and the question should be, how far does the slider go?

So why are we pushing each other to the edges of their position? Nothing will.get solved that way.
We have to take personal responsibility in this.

Our family and friends are not evil, in the main. Even the people on this site arent (!).They may have their slider set somewhere other than where we do, but most people are clustered around the middle. Social media makes it easy for someone to get corralled into an extreme position they dont really hold.

@VestaTilley

It’s so depressing; the collapse of good quality newspaper readership combined with the rise of social media and the internet more generally will probably prove one of the great crises of our century.

Agree. Between that and climate change we are pretty much doomed.

When all your eyes are replaced by Jammie Dodgers you will finally see the real truth. The great biscuit munch is on the horizon. Mwuhahaha!

[quote cinnabarmoth]@tormentil

But who IS the lady in the video? No need to answer, her name is Dr Ileana Johnson Paugh, and she's speaking there to a meeting of a group called 'Doctors for Disaster Preparedness', a conservative group with links to climate change denial and AIDS denial, among other things. I'll admit I only listened to a couple of short sections of the video, as I found her virtually unlistenable due to her speaking style and the way she veered from topic to topic, but in the two segments I listened to she managed a couple of ad hominem attacks, calling someone an environmental wacko and criticising the qualifications of the former Executive Secretary of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change , Christiana Figueres; denied global warming because we have experienced a polar vortex; stated that overpopulation wasn't a thing in the developed world because the birth rate is 0.9, rather than the 'replacement rate' of 2.1, and that the only reason it is 2.1 is because of illegal immigrants; misrepresents Seattle's proposed changes to single-family zoning. And all that in the space of just a few minutes.

Dr Paugh has a website, which links to her work for the 'Canada Free Press', where she has published various articles ranging from the tyranny of mask wearing to claiming that left wing mob rule by paid rioters is equivalent to Nazi Germany's Kristallnacht, via insinuating that when a group of female Democrat politicians all dressed in white they were channelling the KKK and the left-wing women in America have improper morals, dress improperly and swear in front of their children.

I mean, each to their own, but she's neither perceptive nor balanced.[/quote]
It was her age and background that made an impact with me.

It was her age and background that made an impact with me.

So not her credibility? I despair.

@TravellingTilbury

I hadn't come across the Paperboy, only had time for a preliminary check but seems potentially useful for a snapshot of the headlines, thank you.

But The Light paper appears to be run by a covid and 9/11 conspiracy theorist, so that's a no from me.

UK Column is politically biased and from what I examined of it, uses a mix of credible and non-credible sources. TBF political bias is a smaller problem for me than using dodgy sources. In the bit i watched, credible sources were referred to but not actually properly referenced so I haven't been able to verify it for myself. It was easier to check the non-credible sources, hence why I am saying they are not credible (the Mirror and The Defender). UK Column might not be quite as 'out there' as the Light paper, but it's not a credible source of news as far as I am concerned.

I got sucked into the whole conspiracy theories thing. I'm now out the other side and much happier. Conspiracy theories can start to take over your whole life. They can be intriguing at first. Theorists will use disinformation. A mix of truth and lies. But they don't offer any solutions. It doesn't make you happier. It just makes you scared, obsessed , paranoid and depressed. At first though you can feel like the member of a secret club . Only you and the other people know about. For me all the theories all came back to this. The new world order. Religion. Satanic leaders who want to microchip the public. Sounds farfetched but when you have been drowning in it for years you believe it. I researched the bible next. That's when it all fell apart for me . I decided it was all fake. I was free. The bible contradict s itself and has massive , massive flaws. Conspiracy theories themselves can be damaging. If you have mental health issues especially. Depression, anxiety and paranoia and obsession. I was suffering from all of it. They are evil.

@TravellingTilbury

Other alternative news might include:

thelightpaper.co.uk

and

www.ukcolumn.org

The light paper might be too out there for some, fair enough, don't read it but don't kid yourself that MSM covers all news.

I watch the UK column (thrice weekly) - it always uses primary sources, whether that is gov website documents or BBC articles.

The problem with so much of the "alternate" news is that it presents completely different so-called "facts". That aren't facts. This Eton teacher is a classic example - he's outraged because he says he was just giving his students an alternative viewpoint. But his alternative viewpoint was filled with fake information.

There's a difference between an opinion, "I think the government is doing a great job because the whole Covid thing is really hard and we should appreciate the strain of it" vs "The government is incompetent at best, corrupt at worst and they should all be removed from office immediately" and facts.

Real facts are things like how many people have died of Covid. You may choose to use different sources, offering slightly different numbers eg one person may prefer to use excess deaths rather than the Covid death figures released by the government each day. But these are still facts.

When an "alternative" publication comes along and says these numbers are wrong because they haven't seen more funeral processions or because they "feel" or "think" the government is lying, with no proof, then I immediately lose any and all interest in those stories.

Now, in the opinions of some on here, that means I'm just willing to go along with government propaganda etc and am too naive to see the reality in front of me. To which my response is: Whatever. For a start, as I've said before, general incompetence and infighting means that that level of conspiracy would be pretty much impossible to keep hidden. Plus, you know, I talk to people. I follow social media. I hear doctors and nurses and care home staff bewailing their situation. I see people commenting on their loved ones deaths/illness.

The other basic logic flaw that seems to happen a lot is to equate incompetence with a cover up and/or a conspiracy. Okay, they are all lying to us about Covid. It's not as bad as they say it is, they just want to control us etc. But for pity's sake, to what end? Frankly, I'd find it easier to believe it was a conspiracy to kill off the old and weaker in our society than that it's a conspiracy to control the rest of us seeing as us being stuck in our homes is not exactly benefiting anyone, not least the government.

A useful post Teapotuser. Especially agree with this:

At first though you can feel like the member of a secret club . Only you and the other people know about. For me all the theories all came back to this.

You get this very strong vibe from people who are conspiracy theorists. I do think it makes it very seductive to people who are in some ways struggling or vulnerable. I'm happy that you are out the other side. as so many seem to be getting caught up in it these days.

Great post Triffid1.

@TravellingTilbury

Other alternative news might include:

thelightpaper.co.uk

and

www.ukcolumn.org

The light paper might be too out there for some, fair enough, don't read it but don't kid yourself that MSM covers all news.

I watch the UK column (thrice weekly) - it always uses primary sources, whether that is gov website documents or BBC articles.

You seem confused. BBC is not a primary source. It may report primary sources, because it is a professional news organisation, but BBC reports are not in themselves primary sources.

If you don't understand that, maybe there's quite a lot more that you don't understand.

@knittingaddict

A useful post Teapotuser. Especially agree with this:

At first though you can feel like the member of a secret club . Only you and the other people know about. For me all the theories all came back to this.

You get this very strong vibe from people who are conspiracy theorists. I do think it makes it very seductive to people who are in some ways struggling or vulnerable. I'm happy that you are out the other side. as so many seem to be getting caught up in it these days.

CTs are faith-based, as I said earlier. And one of the nice things about having a faith is being in a group with your fellow believers.

I just looked at The Light Paper. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. I'll give them this - it looks good, and slick and professional, and the writing is easy to read.

@HelloThereMeHearties that's a good point. I hadn't even picked up on the "BBC as a primary source".

The light paper has a whole thing about the number of people adversely impacted by vaccination. Except, 1. I couldn't find any reference via the CDC/ACIP website that matched what the reporter said. But okay, I could be looking in the wrong place (for the record, seems unlikely as they have some very clearly marked tables) and 2. the article doesn't specify that these numbers are in the US. They are hilariously vague on that. They also don't provide any other numbers for context eg how many people were vaccinated without any serious reactions.

But people reading this go, "oh, it's terrible, why is no one reporting that 3000 people had adverse reactions? The MSM is so biased and controlled by people in government pockets " because they don't have the ability to realise how the data has been manipulated.

Sorry, one last thing - all these people reading and posting and believing this stuff are probably the same people who post things on facebook warning us all of the dangers of specific paedophile rings or gang initiation practices in the home counties. Because if it's bad and scary then of course it MUST be true. It's the extreme version of my mother who loved the drama of bad news and had a special, "bad news" voice she would reel out while calling all her friends to gossip.

I just think if you aren'y into conspiracies your life isa lot happier and less fearful.

For example theorists are not only scared of covid they are aloo so terrified about vaccines, Bill gates, 5g, chemtrails etc.

Even if conspira ies are true, what can we do about it? Nada...so why worry?

Conspiracies*

@knittingaddict

It was her age and background that made an impact with me.

So not her credibility? I despair.

Age and background equate to life experience. This has value.

Age and background equate to life experience. This has value.

Sure. But they have no value whatsoever when discussing scientific experience and facts. I have age and, I think, an interesting background. That makes me a good person to talk to about, for example, the challenges of being an immigrant or being a foreign women in certain working conditions. It doesn't give me any additional insight into the science behind climate change.

Tormentil The age and background of one person is not the same as another. There are plenty of doctors who are unreliable witnesses. Andrew Wakefield had both age and background and he was discredited and struck off the medical register for very good reasons.

If you are going to look at Youtube videos then you have to be very careful. There are dangerous rabbit holes waiting to catch you out. You need to check out which resources you use.

Anyone who tells me to 'do my own research' tends not to have any understanding of what actual research entails. They usually can't define a 'theory' or explain what a hypothesis is or have any grasp of statistical significance. They often genuinely think that because something is very complicated and they don't understand it, that it cannot actually be true because if it were it would be as simple to explain as how to make a cake. They insist all points of view are equally valid and equal weight must be given to them, as if the idle thoughts of someone who takes a lot of magic mushrooms deserve equal attention with decades of peer reviewed, exhaustively analysed research.

Honestly, in most cases it boils down to recognising that they really don't understand a lot of things and not being able to cope with that. If they buy into these "theories" they never have to come to terms with not being intelligent and/ or educated enough to grasp very complex actual theories. Sad really, most of us aren't intelligent and/ or educated enough to understand a lot of it- and that is fine. Fine. Me not grasping quantum theory doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means I don't get it- and that's ok!

@unmarkedbythat

Anyone who tells me to 'do my own research' tends not to have any understanding of what actual research entails. They usually can't define a 'theory' or explain what a hypothesis is or have any grasp of statistical significance. They often genuinely think that because something is very complicated and they don't understand it, that it cannot actually be true because if it were it would be as simple to explain as how to make a cake. They insist all points of view are equally valid and equal weight must be given to them, as if the idle thoughts of someone who takes a lot of magic mushrooms deserve equal attention with decades of peer reviewed, exhaustively analysed research.

Honestly, in most cases it boils down to recognising that they really don't understand a lot of things and not being able to cope with that. If they buy into these "theories" they never have to come to terms with not being intelligent and/ or educated enough to grasp very complex actual theories. Sad really, most of us aren't intelligent and/ or educated enough to understand a lot of it- and that is fine. Fine. Me not grasping quantum theory doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means I don't get it- and that's ok!

I could not agree more. Research isn't simply finding a large volume of information that supports what you already think

"Do your own research" generally means "Watch a few alarmist videos on YouTube"

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

Waiting for someone to come along with the "tHey JuSt hAvE a DifFereNt opiNiOn to yOu".

Can someone explain that style of punctuation to me? Is it just supposed to be extra aggressive? My step daughter does it when she's sending me something particularly horrible.

@unmarkedbythat

Anyone who tells me to 'do my own research' tends not to have any understanding of what actual research entails. They usually can't define a 'theory' or explain what a hypothesis is or have any grasp of statistical significance. They often genuinely think that because something is very complicated and they don't understand it, that it cannot actually be true because if it were it would be as simple to explain as how to make a cake. They insist all points of view are equally valid and equal weight must be given to them, as if the idle thoughts of someone who takes a lot of magic mushrooms deserve equal attention with decades of peer reviewed, exhaustively analysed research.

Honestly, in most cases it boils down to recognising that they really don't understand a lot of things and not being able to cope with that. If they buy into these "theories" they never have to come to terms with not being intelligent and/ or educated enough to grasp very complex actual theories. Sad really, most of us aren't intelligent and/ or educated enough to understand a lot of it- and that is fine. Fine. Me not grasping quantum theory doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means I don't get it- and that's ok!

This. Drives me crazy. The "all points of view" are equally valid particularly annoys me as detailed up thread. They have no ability to differentiate between opinions and facts or to assess credibility. Plus there's the knee-jerk assumption that authority figures are lying while random people on the internet have only the best of intentions and are completely and totally honest at all times....

I used to think Media studies was a bit of a ridiculous subject (and I work in communications and PR). Now I think it's absolutely essential and should be required to GCSE level. (although I have no idea how robust the actual curriculum is so I reserve the right to be outraged if I discover it's awful and pointless after all).