to be utterly shocked and heartbroken at how many intelligent, lovely friends and acquaintances have totally bought in to the radical global conspiracy theories...

[fuschia2000]

Seeing so much conspiracy stuff on Facebook threads, its totally alarming.... the folks can really make a good argument, with pseudo science, lots of data etc but we are looking at radical q'anon right wing conspiracy theories breaking through into the normal discussion groups and online groups.....

They are not put out there by the mainstream. They are a natural reaction to people knowing that the mainstream is not truthful and are looking for answers.

Sorry KFB I still have no idea what the point you are trying to make is!

I am not on any social media unless you count WhatsApp so thankfully am blissfully ignorant of some of the stuff swirling around. One of the most frightening aspects of what some people have recounted here is that people are seemingly able to cling to, even double down on their beliefs in the face of the lived experience and suffering and people they know very well and are supposed to love. It is not hard to see then how if push came to shove, their beliefs, the things they have been brainwashed to believe would take precedence over almost anything. If people are willing to lose partners, family members, life long friends in the service of these beliefs, it is no stretch to imagine them being persuaded to do much worse to total strangers if that's the direction these theories pushed them, witness the Capitol building attacks for an example. There are strong echoes here of the kind of patterns which have ended with whole groups in society turning against others and particularly against the intelligentsia and so-called elites as happened in Pol Pots Cambodia for instance.

KFB

That was a really good list/timeline, thank you.

Looking at it, it's no wonder that people fall for strange things when that's our daily reality.

Ironically I now have more sympathy for certain types than I did before this thread started. people who are still watching briefings etc must be hella confused.

@Triffid1 I apologize. I thought you were the OP. My angst was directed there. It shouldn't have been towards yourself...

@KFB1978

Just because the virus might exist doesn't mean the reaction to it is not benefiting a lot of people right now at the expense of others. I am just stating that the mainstream opinion SHOULD be questioned and not swallowed down because it's on the state propoganda channels.

But again, what's your point? I mean, I think we can all agree on this (Matt Hancock's pub-landlord buddy springs to mind, for example). But you must be reading different MSM to me. Because the stuff I'm reading is constantly pointing out the holes in the government's policies and plans. And their commentators are writing endless articles about how chaotic and disgusting everything from Dom Cummings to the PPE scandal is. The Sunday Times wrote a massive and fascinating article (expose?) re how the government hadn't even been complying with its own pandemic/crisis planning ahead of Covid.

I don't know a single person who thinks that it's all fine and hunky dory.

But there's a big difference between that and thinking it's all a conspiracy so that "they" can benefit.

@KFB1978

You are frustrated because the CTs are a false dichotomy. They are put out there as an extreme and ridiculous alternative to the mainstream. So people say those CTs are incredible we will go with the mainstream view. Your government never lie to you do they?

What does this mean? I have no idea what you are talking about. This thread is about people who believe conspiracy theories. That's the entire point - that there are lots of people who believe in conspiracy theories and that its crazy.

No one has said that if you don't believe in conspiracy theories then the only other option is just to take everything the government says at face value.

It just annoys me people who believe the MSM because it's the MSM when it's bought and paid for by the government and establishment. Not saying Facebook (aka CIA book) is any better. They are both excrement in their own way.

But people call out CT but they don't call out MSM...

Btw the TalkRadio thing 100pc what I'm talking about. They obviously had a "warning shot". Toe the line or we will shaft you. You can see the change in the output since then and the disclaimers the presenters make. Also the editing of the clips that differ from the live feed when the guests cross the line.

@KFB1978

It just annoys me people who believe the MSM because it's the MSM when it's bought and paid for by the government and establishment. Not saying Facebook (aka CIA book) is any better. They are both excrement in their own way.

But people call out CT but they don't call out MSM...

Btw the TalkRadio thing 100pc what I'm talking about. They obviously had a "warning shot". Toe the line or we will shaft you. You can see the change in the output since then and the disclaimers the presenters make. Also the editing of the clips that differ from the live feed when the guests cross the line.

Who are these 'people' who don't apply any critical thinking to the MSM? as Triffid has pointed out the MSM are constantly pointing out govt errors. In addition the MSM show a range of opinions, The Guardian and The Telegraph have different takes on Covid as do various other 'mainstream' outlets.

FYI - as soon as you post something like 'Facebook (aka CIA book) ' you look like a slightly deranged conspiracy theorist!

Haha I give up. You are exactly the sort of person that doesnt apply critical thinking ever. I don't know why I posted on here anyway. It's only a throwaway account to try and raise some awareness but people are beyond help. Enjoy your new world order. You deserve it.

@KFB1978

Haha I give up. You are exactly the sort of person that doesnt apply critical thinking ever. I don't know why I posted on here anyway. It's only a throwaway account to try and raise some awareness but people are beyond help. Enjoy your new world order. You deserve it.

Unfortunately i don't think anyone is any the wiser as to what you are trying to raise awareness of.

Raise awareness of what?

seashells11
Those proposals set out by the World economic forum are shocking. Surely it couldn't be enforced. It wouldn't be a world I'd want to live in.

It won't be inforced in the same way mask wearing and social distancing hasn't been enforced. But you'll be told it's to stop climate change and we'll all die if we don't go along with.

I expect we'll start hearing about it in the mainstream media very soon.

I saw a headline article on the BBC website a few weeks ago, about how one of the learnings from the current crisis is that it would be much better for everyone if there was greater equality... (I check daily for 'news' that is more about informing us on what it to happen rather than what is happening.

@KFB1978

Haha I give up. You are exactly the sort of person that doesnt apply critical thinking ever. I don't know why I posted on here anyway. It's only a throwaway account to try and raise some awareness but people are beyond help. Enjoy your new world order. You deserve it.

You don't deserve it, I don't deserve it.

No prizes for guessing what kind of industry I'm in. Or was in...

I offer a solidarity hug if you want one.

I am well over my internet time today, no internet for me tomorrow!

KFB1978
Are you playing conspiracy theorist bingo in your posts?
Or do you seriously believe that despite countless articles criticising the government nobody in the MSM criticises the government?

Is your definition of critical thinking limited to 'nobody else thinks as freely as me, I see the light and the sheeple don't see it'?

@Loustew12

Genuine question. Where do I go to see these wide range of views and critical thinkers? I've been crying out for open debate, either on TV, radio, newspapers. But it seems during covid we are not allowed to question the government approach whatever that happens to be? Do you think that, in itself, has caused people to dig deeper? And some have just gone too far?

I think that you have to read and read and read. I watch videos on you tube, then read the comments. Sometimes, the comments offer more education/information than the videos. One presentation/video can lead to another then another etc etc

Over the past year, I have filtered a lot of information. A lot of it drivel. It's up to you to develop discernment. Eventually you can skim the drivel and hone in on the stuff that matters.

I found this lady's presentation to be balanced and perceptive. But don't step there, keep going and listen to more angles. Make your own mind up.

It's pretty clear that a lot of people on this thread don't read a range of media. Because within the MSM there is such a huge difference of opinion on all kinds of things to do with Covid. But if you've missed that then.... [shrug]

@MsMarch

It's pretty clear that a lot of people on this thread don't read a range of media. Because within the MSM there is such a huge difference of opinion on all kinds of things to do with Covid. But if you've missed that then.... [shrug]

This is delusional. The MSM catagorically do not cover a huge range of opinions.

You'd be aware of that if you got your news from alternative sources.

@tormentil

But who IS the lady in the video? No need to answer, her name is Dr Ileana Johnson Paugh, and she's speaking there to a meeting of a group called 'Doctors for Disaster Preparedness', a conservative group with links to climate change denial and AIDS denial, among other things. I'll admit I only listened to a couple of short sections of the video, as I found her virtually unlistenable due to her speaking style and the way she veered from topic to topic, but in the two segments I listened to she managed a couple of ad hominem attacks, calling someone an environmental wacko and criticising the qualifications of the former Executive Secretary of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change , Christiana Figueres; denied global warming because we have experienced a polar vortex; stated that overpopulation wasn't a thing in the developed world because the birth rate is 0.9, rather than the 'replacement rate' of 2.1, and that the only reason it is 2.1 is because of illegal immigrants; misrepresents Seattle's proposed changes to single-family zoning. And all that in the space of just a few minutes.

Dr Paugh has a website, which links to her work for the 'Canada Free Press', where she has published various articles ranging from the tyranny of mask wearing to claiming that left wing mob rule by paid rioters is equivalent to Nazi Germany's Kristallnacht, via insinuating that when a group of female Democrat politicians all dressed in white they were channelling the KKK and the left-wing women in America have improper morals, dress improperly and swear in front of their children.

I mean, each to their own, but she's neither perceptive nor balanced.

I've left many groups I was in because of the utter nonsense and replace them with this. That's why I am new to Mumsnet. lol

I think you mean that MSM does not cover a wide range of alternative facts. Which is true. And sometimes there is a distinct lack of balance. But overall, the vast bulk of people and organisations I have been directed to by anti MSM types are laughably bad, vague and easily debunked.

@MsMarch

It's pretty clear that a lot of people on this thread don't read a range of media. Because within the MSM there is such a huge difference of opinion on all kinds of things to do with Covid. But if you've missed that then.... [shrug]

You are joking, right? Nearly all media is owned by just a few companies. Occasionally you get a few journalists that have an independent voice but then their article might get buried depending on the editorial slant.

Ofcom is currently dictating what broadcasters can cover re: Covid.

You think by listening to sky news, radio 4, reading the guardian, the times and the spectator is enough to escape the limits of the MSM? Come on. Same shit in different sentences.

Even just a glance at worldwide front pages will demonstrate that the curated UK MSM news topics and focus is really narrow.

www.thepaperboy.com/front-pages-by-country.cfm

Other alternative news might include:

thelightpaper.co.uk

and

www.ukcolumn.org

The light paper might be too out there for some, fair enough, don't read it but don't kid yourself that MSM covers all news.

I watch the UK column (thrice weekly) - it always uses primary sources, whether that is gov website documents or BBC articles.

Yep I was looking at a few friends on FB the other day, some of the stuff they were posting just made it look like they were totally paranoid about everything

One friend just posting loads of anti Covid vaccine things...I just didn't expect it from her, she's got a background in science etc