to be utterly shocked and heartbroken at how many intelligent, lovely friends and acquaintances have totally bought in to the radical global conspiracy theories...

[fuschia2000]

Seeing so much conspiracy stuff on Facebook threads, its totally alarming.... the folks can really make a good argument, with pseudo science, lots of data etc but we are looking at radical q'anon right wing conspiracy theories breaking through into the normal discussion groups and online groups.....

Ugh mn

People forget how hard Men had to fight to get the vote

There's a lot of money for some groups of the rest of us "own nothing".

I see the article has been amended since I saw it, saying "it's just an idea" but policy begins as an idea.

All kinds of things may or may not happen.

@TravellingTilbury

It's not about being right or wrong though, I think it is helpful to show how ideas get posted (eg the great reset) and where they originate (the WEF) and then how it gets twisted into people thinking it is a conspiracy when it isn't. As I said, what comes of it is a different matter, but that's not the point. The Great reset is a thing - and many world leaders are involved. Don't take it personally!

I wouldn't bother, I expressed surprise at people thinking it's a conspiracy when it's been around so long.

Some people are determined to put certain thoughts in a certain box.

Have you heard of the conspiracy where everyone was fooled into thinking they’re living in a democracy only to learn that they have no real say in their laws: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/07/revealed-queen-lobbied-for-change-in-law-to-hide-her-private-wealth

Oh wait. It’s not a conspiracy. Reality sometimes is far far worse.

Of course "you'll own nothing" doesn't mean themselves. They'll have everything. As if we don't have enough to worry about.

What kind of things are they saying? Is it the whole New World Order , 5G thing? Or anti-vaxxers? Or just people who are holding government to account? Or maybe don't agree with lockdown as a strategy? Sometimes I worry these people are all clumped together as 'covid deniers' or 'conspiracy theorists'?

Years ago I found it very hard to understand how a very intelligent daughter of a colleague at work would not have her kids vaccinated with MMR as she believed all the Andrew Wakefield stuff. Got a bit tricky when colleague asked me whether I was having DS vaccinated. She had accepted it as well. To be honest I found that worse than the QAnon rubbish. Her DC were at nursery etc while not vaccinated.

@Loustew12

What kind of things are they saying? Is it the whole New World Order , 5G thing? Or anti-vaxxers? Or just people who are holding government to account? Or maybe don't agree with lockdown as a strategy? Sometimes I worry these people are all clumped together as 'covid deniers' or 'conspiracy theorists'?

Yes. Everything is clumped together by some.

I've been accused on here of being a covid denier because of being anti lockdown.

In real life, someone expressed surprise that I'll get the vaccine because he thought anti lockdown meant covid denier.

I have no idea how all this stuff gets put into one pot.

On the flip side, I think there are people who would be genuinely surprised by my social and political views because of my work, being a Londoner and being a certain skin colour. It's bizarre.

I went to the David Baddiel event about social media and I learned a few codes that I had no idea about.

But the 20 something friend who came with me says "no one means what they say on social media, they probably haven't even thought about it".

Actually that's not a flip side is it...it's the same side.

Apologies, long day.

Covid deniers are ridiculous but a lot of people are troubled by the loss of so many of our liberties and whether they will ever come back as they were.

@lunaheather what codes?

I’ve seen stuff on Facebook about the manga carta 61, and the government have no right to govern etc

'the great reset', what a novel idea, guess nobody has ever thought of stuff like that before.... I mean nothing like communism now is it

Genuine question. Where do I go to see these wide range of views and critical thinkers? I've been crying out for open debate, either on TV, radio, newspapers. But it seems during covid we are not allowed to question the government approach whatever that happens to be? Do you think that, in itself, has caused people to dig deeper? And some have just gone too far?

@lunar1

It's school mums on my social media, they've utilised their 3 GCSE's, conducted research (mostly via YouTube videos of Katie Hopkins and a daytime tv random) and decided they are making an informed decision to say fuckit to restrictions.

Then encouraging each other 'you do you hun' 🤮

How the hell did they make it through natural selection.

First proper lol on Mumsnet in months

Here you go @knittingaddict also look into how the elderly with a plethora of health conditions “die with Covid,” but people dying after having the vaccine is “just a coincidence” or due to “old age.”

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-uk-overestimates-coronavirus-death-toll.amp

www.cebm.net/covid-19/why-no-one-can-ever-recover-from-covid-19-in-england-a-statistical-anomaly/

[quote CutePixie]Here you go @knittingaddict also look into how the elderly with a plethora of health conditions “die with Covid,” but people dying after having the vaccine is “just a coincidence” or due to “old age.”

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-uk-overestimates-coronavirus-death-toll.amp

www.cebm.net/covid-19/why-no-one-can-ever-recover-from-covid-19-in-england-a-statistical-anomaly/[/quote]
The death recording problem described in this article was identified in the summer and the figures amended

publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2020/08/12/behind-the-headlines-counting-covid-19-deaths/

Loustew - you know about the Ofcom restrictions for broadcasters regarding Covid-19?

www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-on-demand/information-for-industry/guidance/broadcast-standards-and-coronavirus

Personally I think this has contributed to a lot of the problems with certain information either being buried or not questioned in the media.

Did that actually happen though? Everyone who tested positive had that on their death certificate even if they got run over by a bus? As the actual cause of death? I've yet to see any evidence that it happened like that other than people claiming such on forums.

No they didn't have covid as cause of death on their death certificate if they got run over by a bus. They may however have been included in the COVID stats of deaths reported each day, because those stats look at everyone who tested positive for COVID in the previous 28 days, and at whether the person is alive or deceased. If deceased they are one of the people who died within 28 days of a positive COVID test. COVID may or may not have been their actual cause of death. There are other stats which show number of deaths where covid is mentioned on the death certificate. These people may or may not have had a positive covid test - the doctor certifying death may have put it as covid due to symptoms if they didn't have a test. Numbers for both sets of stats are similar.

And sorry about the rt link but the the UK free press are barely a free press these days. The government pay rack rate for adverts bringing in £££ revenue to the newspapers, so of course the editors are under pressure to hide or promote certain themes and topics - it would be naive to think otherwise.

www.rt.com/uk/487376-coronavirus-government-money-newspapers/

[quote Standrewsschool]@lunaheather what codes?

I’ve seen stuff on Facebook about the manga carta 61, and the government have no right to govern etc[/quote]
About beliefs including racism

It needs the context of his explanation so I won't attempt to explain as it would be dreadful to get it wrong.

@Loustew12

Genuine question. Where do I go to see these wide range of views and critical thinkers? I've been crying out for open debate, either on TV, radio, newspapers. But it seems during covid we are not allowed to question the government approach whatever that happens to be? Do you think that, in itself, has caused people to dig deeper? And some have just gone too far?

Ironically, Lou, I am supposed to be limiting my time online and I've gone over it which is too far 😂

But yes, the views are being hidden and OFCOM rules are linked to that.

Doctors and scientists with anti lockdown views are discredited, as are those wishing to try older, cheaper medical treatments. I try to avoid MSM since I realised but AFAIK even the Great Barrington Declaration was smeared and removed from search engines. It may be back now, .i don't know. I think some search engines and big sites played silly buggers with articles about Ivermectin too. TalkRadio was removed from YouTube for a while, I can't recall what excuse was given but it was flagged up because of freely exploring anti lockdown sentiment.

Dr Malcolm Kendrick wrote a couple of excellent medical books - c2015 I think? - explaining how stats are so badly abused and saying "god help us if the modellers get their hands on medical policy".

Now I think he doesn't get published.

Michael Levitt, Nobel Prize winner - anti lockdown, largely ignored. Well, you don't need me to list the doctors and scientists who are anti lockdown, there's loads.

I've been off news for months now. Mum is a very pro establishment, trust the government person and even she is thinking this is the most controlled regime she's ever seen.

For me, watching the history of yesterday being rewritten daily does mean I question a lot of things. This pre-dates 2020.

There are so many utterly ludicrous things going on in the world, there's bound to be a different limitation for each of us in what we believe. But the crazy we see in the real world is real crazy- it's not been made up online. You might see it at work or in your child's school curriculum.

@Sadsiblingatsea

Lots of what you call ‘conspiracy theories’ are already here, OP. I never thought getting a job or being able to travel would be made dependent on having an untested medical treatment. Or that police officers would be arresting pensioners for sitting on benches or taking away quite basic freedoms. Try not to be so narrow minded.

Except that none of these things have actually happened as you describe them, have they?

The vaccine is very far from untested, and getting a job or travelling do not require a vaccine passport because vaccine passports aren't a thing.

Police officers were not arresting people for sitting on benches, they were arresting people for breaking lockdown rules.

Police officers were not arresting people for sitting on benches, they were arresting people for breaking lockdown rules

Which basically meant sitting on a bench, whish isn't actually breaking any laws. Lockdown rules aren't the law. Breaking rules isn't an arrestable offence as far as I know.

Everyone has a mobile. Most people have a car. Many have biometric passports. Its practically impossible to get by without a bank card. We can all be located 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. So why the hell would Bill Gates need to track anyone with a secret bloody microchip? The lack of reasoning is absolutely terrifying.

@seashells11

Police officers were not arresting people for sitting on benches, they were arresting people for breaking lockdown rules

Which basically meant sitting on a bench, whish isn't actually breaking any laws. Lockdown rules aren't the law. Breaking rules isn't an arrestable offence as far as I know.

Yes, there do seem to be a lot of incidents of forces actually saying themselves "we did this" and it turns out they didn't differentiate between law and guidance.

@Firstfrill

My sil says that although covid is without a doubt real, it is being used to gradually bring in a cashless society and businesses to go bust, therefore people relying totally on the government for support, which she says can be taken away at will. Its all pre planned apparently.

But is this crazy - we already know there are people who would very much like to achieve these things. Many many of the large businesses of the world would like to see many smaller businesses go bust. The pandemic has been great for Amazon, not so good for small local businesses.

There have been pushes from banks and governments to go cashless, it's taken some pushback to try and hold it back.

We know that after 9/11, many of the security things which were instituted were things that some state agents had wanted to institute for some time, particularly in the US. And they did because of the opportunity they had with 9/11, and they are still there.

We are in a cycle now of increasing authoritarianism in a number of areas. It makes people suspicious.