DC left home alone

[mumof2sc]

Posting here for traffic really but...
I have 2 DC aged 5&8.
I have shared custody (50/50) with my exH.

DC have revealed today that they are often left home alone in the mornings while he takes his younger DS to nursery. They've told me they eat their breakfast and then go to the living room and have instructions not to answer the door.
I also have concerned about the fact they tell me they often walk the dog with just their older step sibling who is 12. Both of them have had different (minor) injuries when they've been doing this. It's also not the best area and let's just say there are a lot of unsavoury characters around where he lives.

I'm not at all happy about this and would absolutely never leave my children home alone even if it is just for 10/15 minutes.
I don't have the best relationship with exH (despite my best efforts, he's just not prepared to be civil) and as a result i don't feel I can raise this with him as I know how he will react. I also don't want the kids getting it in the neck when they go back to him.

The 50/50 arrangement has been in place since we separated and I hate it. I'd never stop him seeing his children but I feel he's making decisions that are not in their best interests.
AIBU? Is this an over reaction on my part? If not, WTF do I do?

You need to raise it with him and if necessary with social care.

I have only just started to allow both of mine to stay home alone if I pop to the shops - so 30-40 mins tops. They are 13.5 and 11.

@sassbott You are doing your 13.5 year old a disservice. That's what, Year 8, maybe yr 9? I'm in a big city and year 9 at my own school is generally when they start going off to the city centre shopping with their mates on a Saturday afternoon, or to the cinema. Is your 13.5 year old allowed some independence outside of the house? If so, I can't see what's wrong with leaving them INSIDE the house for half a day or even a full day.

They are too young
There is no excuse or reason other than it being inconvenient and hard work which is a often the lot of a parent with young children when faced with having to get them all out of the house in bad weather early in the morning. Tough shit.

You are their mother
I think in this instance you are absolutely correct to raise concerns

I think you are going to struggle to get the courts to do anything about him leaving a 5 & 8 year old alone for a short time to take another child to nursery.

I have been told that there is no rule/law specifying an age at which kids can be left alone so you really cannot act against this until... an accident happens, in the meantime all’s good and nothing bad has happened, which is bonkers and not right but there are so many things that are not clear cut when it comes to when an action can be considered neglect.

The walking the dog on their own is another one where you will find it difficult to get support, again it is not right but honestly, you are likely to be deemed as wasting the court’s time.

Sadly, some times the only thing you can do to help your children to stay safe is to provide the training for them to be safe when they are not under your care

You didn't make that clear. Eye roll all you like.

I would be concerned if they were crossing roads whilst dogwalking. It's too much to expect a 12 year old to look after a lively dog and two children when crossing a road (however quiet).

Read my posts. Both of them. They’re perfectly clear. Very clearly stating whether the 12 year could adequately care for a 8 and 5 year old in the event of an emergency.
Then the fact that the comment re a year 7 being left alone for half a day would raise safeguarding concerns. I believe I said complete nonsense given most children this age are using public transport etc by this age to get to school. Here’s a clue, just like my eldest has done since that age.

So yeah. That’s on you - maybe own the fact that you misread it.

@strawberriesontheNeva

Thing is though, you can't get involved in what dad does at his house during his time with his children. Courts really don't like a parent interfering with the others custody time. Also you only have the word of two young children , that's not proof.

Of course you can get involved. A neighbour got involved when an ex colleague left her kids home alone and they were older, though she left them for a couple of hours. Neighbours rang the police and they rang her up at work and told her to go home, she was prosecuted.

Make an anonymous call to police if you know for a fact they are alone at x time, make anonymous call to social services. Them ex won't know it's you or that the kids have told you, he'll more than likely think a neighbour has done it.

I work in safeguarding.

There is so much rubbish being spouted on this thread.

1. It is not illegal. In England there is no legal lower age limit, the law is about whether or not the children are safe. But that does not mean that it is considered to be OK.

The NSPCC guidelines give the guidelines which are considered to be safe. For a 5 year old that would be never at any time. For an 8 year old, it would be maybe 5-10 minutes while you close by - neighbour, corner shop etc. For a 12 year old, a couple of hours. For uynder 16 not overnight.

All if those are also dependant on situation and circumstances.

Anyone saying they did this, or their parents did this, or you can do this in another country, that is not the point.

1. The police and SS would respond. They would investigate an 8 and 5 year old. What they do next will depend on a lot of things around the family.

OP - I agree that he does not sound as if he will listen to you. YOu need it to come from an authority figure. You have a choice, phone SS yourself. Phone school, and say you fully expect them to phone SS, but he will not listen to you, and you don't want your name on the report as there will be repercussions on you. Or phone the police, and say you will not give your name. If SS come back to you, you can explain that that is what you have done.

As to 11, 12 and 13 year olds.

I don't think there is usually any concern raised for a few hours, eg 4 hours when at work for secondary aged kids.

BUT there may well be a concern if it is every day, eg all through 6 weeks summer holidays. Or if the child is ill. Or if there is no-one nearby that they can go to.

But secondary aged kids travel 1 hour on public transport between towns and are often home alone after school until parents come home. Personally, I think that is tough everyday, pretty hard to come home every day to an empty house, but it is not going to interest SS unless there are other flags alongside it.

Just a thought as you said his partner works shifts is there a chance she's at home, in bed after a night shift?

I know mine would say they were left on their own if I was sleeping after a night shift and their dad was out for a short period of time, they were old enough to wake me if they needed anything

Another concern would be, is the dog left unsupervised with them when home alone?

I wouldn't leave the 8 year old alone never mind the 5 year old. The 8 year old should not have the responsibility of looking after 5 year old. Tell dad he needs to take them with him or at very least take 5 year old with him. Its been brought to your attention now so you need to act on it or your just as bad knowing they are alone an doing nothing.

5 and 8 is far too young OP. I would raise it with your ex and send a message. Could you try mediation at all? I would try this route first before school.

I would stop contact personally if I didn’t get an agreement from my ex not to do things like this. A 8 year old should not have responsibility of a 5 year old.

@sassbott

I would have a huge issue with this as would most child professionals. I have only just started to allow both of mine to stay home alone if I pop to the shops - so 30-40 mins tops. They are 13.5 and 11.

If there was an emergency/ fire would the 12 year old be able to calmly deal with it and remove an 8 and 5 year old? I would say no. As a minimum he should be taking the 5 year old with him.

At 9 I walked to and from primary school alone (I lived nearby). At 11 I traveled to and from secondary school alone. At 12-13 I traveled to the nearest city with a few friends to go shopping. At 14 I went to gigs in the city with friends. My parents trusted me and I was street smart. I’m in my early 20s now.

So you’re telling me you have only just started to leave your nearly 14 year alone for 30 mins?

Could you do an anonymous report to social services ? I think its only acceptable to leave a 5 and 8 year old home as a one off if they were poorly to go and pick up medicine / essential food, not as a regular thing because it makes his nursery trip easier. Doesnt matter what you say to kids of this age, they get up to mischief, what if one of them swallowed something accidently, or decided to switch on the cooker.

🙄. Read the thread.

@sassbott

🙄. Read the thread.

Sass you're very ...well, sassy ...tonight! Ease up!

😂😂😂😂. Because my saying RTFT is so ‘antsy’.

@sassbott

😂😂😂😂. Because my saying RTFT is so ‘antsy’.

With the 🙄 and the full stops though, and your wee run in earlier! Chill!

Says me, I know

@iolaus

Just a thought as you said his partner works shifts is there a chance she's at home, in bed after a night shift?

I know mine would say they were left on their own if I was sleeping after a night shift and their dad was out for a short period of time, they were old enough to wake me if they needed anything

I asked this very question and was told sometimes she is but sometimes she is at work or taking the older step sibling to school in another town or to her Dad's. They are definitely alone in the house.

I'm honestly quite surprised people think it's fine for a 12 year old to be responsible for a 5 and 8 year old (and a dog but not relevant) out in a walk? If something happened to the younger kids you couldn't very well expect a 12 year old child to take responsibility for it.

I think a 12 year old and an 8 year old would be ok for a short time and also with the dog walking , but I wouldn't feel happy that the 12 year old had responsibility for the 5 year old either inside or outside the house, and certainly that's too much responsibility on an 8 year old .

I think that you ought to tell your ex that you are not happy with this. Surely he can take the DC with him when he drops the baby at nursery on the days that the older child or his partner aren't there .

If you really don't feel comfortable speaking to him yourself , then yes, do it via a safeguarding professional either at your child's school or social services . If your DC were to tell a member of staff at school they would question your ex about this . There would u likely be a major SS investigation but I would expect someone either the school DSL or a social worker to follow any report up at least with a phone call to see what was going on, and to tel him it's not appropriate.