To think that the vast majority of people do not feel they have a gender identity?

[Galvantulang]

My company has recently started suggesting that we can record our gender identity and preferred pronouns (these would be publicly displayed on the intranet) on our HR record system. It's optional for now, but almost everyone I asked at work when the email came out went "eh?".

Apart from the data protection issues of collecting all this extra information, AIBU to think that the majority of people don't consider themselves to have a gender identity, just their sex?

i.e. you don't identify as a man or woman, you just... are one?

Watching laws and amendments to bills being proposed (especially in Scotland) based on recognising gender identity rather than biological sex, seems somewhat unreal.

Um...

Yabu = I feel like I have a gender identity.
Yanbu = I do not feel like I have a gender identity.

• The point I'm making is, instead of pretending there's no such thing as gender, why aren't we fighting back to reclaim gender for what it really means. I.e. males are men and females are women.

Eh? Have you not seen the 'Adult Human Female' t-shirts? Women are certainly not docilely allowing this word to be appropriated.

I'm female, that means I'm a woman. Simples. This overcomplicating everything done by the gender brigade is, to my eyes anyway, merely a way of distracting themselves from how unremarkably ordinary and mediocre they actually are.

@HaroldMeeker

I'm female, that means I'm a woman. Simples. This overcomplicating everything done by the gender brigade is, to my eyes anyway, merely a way of distracting themselves from how unremarkably ordinary and mediocre they actually are.

I completely agree.

I remember Russell Brand (ironically at the time, as it was in the days when he wore his hair up like Marge Simpson and dressed "like a tinker" as he put it) did a bit about people with no personality.

"But they have a crazy hat. So they wear that instead. As long as I've got me hat..."

No one here is saying we're not women either @PrawnPower.

I'm not sure where you're getting that from and I don't think I really understand your point. We want women to mean adult human females, men to mean adult human males. None of us want to be menstruators or cervix havers either.

Claiming to have a gender identity separate from your sex is the problem.

@ErrolTheDragon

* The point I'm making is, instead of pretending there's no such thing as gender, why aren't we fighting back to reclaim gender for what it really means. I.e. males are men and females are women. *

Eh? Have you not seen the 'Adult Human Female' t-shirts? Women are certainly not docilely allowing this word to be appropriated.

Yes I've seen the T-shirts. I follow this stuff carefully.

I'm asking why there are so many people on this thread claiming not to have a gender identity as though this is some clever blow against the TRAs.

Your gender is boy or girl or man or woman.

You can say you don't "feel" like a woman. But that is just nonsense. You're a man or a woman regardless of your feelings. To say otherwise is just to play silly beggars in a similar manner to the TRAs.

My cat might not feel like a cat. But she's a fucking cat.

Yes, but you're still a woman. Don't mistake having a personality for not having a gender

PrawnPower why do you keep on insisting that woman is a gender? You sound like a TRA.

Gender is a set of sex role stereotypes.
You are telling us you think women are a nothing but people who have a set of stereotypes in common.

Woman means adult human female. Nothing else.
The ONLY thing every female has in common is their sex.

@Galvantulang

No one here is saying we're not women either *@PrawnPower*.

I'm not sure where you're getting that from and I don't think I really understand your point. We want women to mean adult human females, men to mean adult human males. None of us want to be menstruators or cervix havers either.

Claiming to have a gender identity separate from your sex is the problem.

Help me out because I'm still lost. So many PP saying they don't have a gender. That they are female and the rest is just "me".

I'm not sure why they are playing these linguistic games. Yes you're female. That's your sex. And your gender is woman. Why are people saying the don't "feel" they have a gender in this case?

Woman is not a gender it's a sex

*Your gender is the same as your sex. Sex is male or female. But that also applies to other animals. If you're a female human you're a girl or a woman depending on age. If you're a male human you're a boy or a man depending on age.

Sex is biological, gender is just the name for what that means as a human being as opposed to being a female dog.

What's difficult about that?*

It’s crap, is what’s difficult about it. The definition of gender can’t be sex, or what would people mean by gender incongruity?

Prawnpower do you say your cat has a gender? Does the vet ask "what gender is the cat?"

I'm not sure why they are playing these linguistic games. Yes you're female. That's your sex. And your gender is woman. Why are people saying the don't "feel" they have a gender in this case?

None of us want to be playing these games. It's situations such as the OP describes, where a company is asking about 'gender identity' which is causing this. Of course, given the option to ignore it that's exactly what most of us do. But the census came perilously close to asking about 'gender identity' instead of sex. That's why it matters.

A bit of both really.

First and foremost, I identify as a human and my personality, likes/dislikes and interests, are personal to me, not my sex. I don't go around consciously thinking of myself as a woman, just 'me'.

However, I can't completely deny that my sex does influence certain things, for example I'm a mother and mothers are programmed to wake very easily at the sound of their child. I also like feminine clothes and like make up - whether that's a personal interest/preference or social conditioning, I can't honestly can't say. We all choose clothes that we feel are a reflection of ourselves. My style doesn't preclude me from enjoying exercise, horror films and books; I'm practical - good at DIY and prepared to give things a go. I consider myself logical over emotional and a problem solver. We are all multi-faceted individuals, no one factor defines me at all.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Yes, but you're still a woman. Don't mistake having a personality for not having a gender

PrawnPower why do you keep on insisting that woman is a gender? You sound like a TRA.

Gender is a set of sex role stereotypes.
You are telling us you think women are a nothing but people who have a set of stereotypes in common.

Woman means adult human female. Nothing else.
The ONLY thing every female has in common is their sex.

why do you keep on insisting that woman is a gender? You sound like a TRA.

Eh? This is a really weird thing to say.

Gender is a set of sex role stereotypes.
You are telling us you think women are a nothing but people who have a set of stereotypes in common

I haven't said this anywhere in my posts. Not once.

Why is your association with the word "woman" a set of stereotypes. Women just means an adult human female. You said so yourself. At what point is that laden with a set of stereotypes. If there are damaging stereotypes of women in society then that is to be challenged. It doesn't mean we have to throw away the fact that we have a sex which is female and a gender which is woman. It's just language. If we only went by "female" that would be ignoring the history of the English language and I think throwing out or humanity. As I've said in previous posts, "female" is too biologically rooted a word for every day use. I don't refer to myself as female, I refer to myself as a woman.

I'm saying nothing more than females are women and males are men. Why is that problematic?

That means someone born male is a man and nothing can change that.

Is everyone getting caught up on the meaning of gender because the TRAs have mangled its meaning? Well bollocks to them. Reclaim the word gender as simple man or woman and that it's intrinsically tied to sex. They linguistic categories for the same thing.

But I am, unequivocally a woman and a 'she' by virtue of biology.

I identify as an individual and my sex is female.

Gender or gender identity?

@ErrolTheDragon

I'm not sure why they are playing these linguistic games. Yes you're female. That's your sex. And your gender is woman. Why are people saying the don't "feel" they have a gender in this case?

None of us want to be playing these games. It's situations such as the OP describes, where a company is asking about 'gender identity' which is causing this. Of course, given the option to ignore it that's exactly what most of us do. But the census came perilously close to asking about 'gender identity' instead of sex. That's why it matters.

Ok I think I'm with you. So the issue is with the phrase "gender identity" rather than "gender"?

I get this. Because I don't identify with my gender. I am my gender.

I recently chose not to submit a form that had a section for "gender identity". My issue was with the long list of nonsense options.

Had it said "what is your gender" and stated 3 options: man, woman, prefer not to say, then I would have completed the form.

I'm biologically female & my gender is female definitely as I'm very feminine.

I do get mixed up with certain things like pan & poly & I thought 'queer' was an offensive word for a gay person though...

Why is your association with the word "woman" a set of stereotypes. Women just means an adult human female

Yes a woman is an adult human female.

The word woman MEANS adult human female. Nothing to do with gender.

I refuse to state my pronouns because it gives voice to the lie that gender is something we feel rather than being imposed on us in a patriarchal world.

I am going to use this if the topic comes up at work, thank you

@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown

Prawnpower do you say your cat has a gender? Does the vet ask "what gender is the cat?"

My cat identifies as a fresh baked loaf of bread. Her identity at the vet is Loaf.

Although seriously, we do have words like this to class gender in the animal kingdom. Bitch, Tom, Queen, etc etc.

So would most PPs like to throw the word gender out and just have sex as female. In that case would we say my sex is female and woman is just another word for that?

I just can't get worried about having sex and gender in the English language. It does exist when categorising the animal kingdom.

I do have a problem with TRAs mangling the meaning of gender beyond that which it is: terms to denote sex. In humans it's boy girl man or woman.

I would say I have a gender identity, yes.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Why is your association with the word "woman" a set of stereotypes. Women just means an adult human female

Yes a woman is an adult human female.

The word woman MEANS adult human female. Nothing to do with gender.

I see gender as simply meaning whether you're a man or a woman. What's the problem with that?

E.g.
"what gender is the baby?" "He's a boy." Fine.

"I'm pan-gender and I identity sometimes as a man and sometimes as a woman. Sometimes I identify as neither." Parent bollocks.

Either you're a man or a woman. Check your sex and that'll tell you which English gendered term you need to use.

I can remember like it was yesterday the shock of finding out I was a second class human because of my sex.
I've never been told 'you can't do that' or 'you can't join in' because of my gender identity.