To think bad dog owners don't realise that they are bad dog owners?

[WayTooSoon]

Kind of a thread about lots of threads...

Every so often, threads appear on here saying someone's dog ran up to them/their child/their dog and how the owners respond with "it's ok, he's friendly" or similar. What usually follows is a load of posters saying "bad owners give us good owners a bad name". So is mumsnet entirely populated by "good owners" or are people oblivious to their own shortcomings as pet owners? Aibu to think that if someone is a bad owner, it seems likely that they have no idea that other people see them as a bad owner?

Are you now or have you ever been a "bad owner"?

[quote dontdisturbmenow]@Wouldntwanttobeya,you've had a bad experience, it's understandable that it's left you wary of dog's behaviour. It doesn't mean that incidents with dogs are common.

Someone up thread mentioned kids not getting in the way. I had an accident a couple of years ago when running and q kid on his scooter wasn't looking where he was going and his parents were not paying attention. I diverted my direction but at last minute so did he. I hit the wheel and went flying down hurt my ankle and my hands were in blood. I was annoyed but it doesn't mean I believe kids should only ride their scooter in a skate board park. It happened once.[/quote]
According to Defra - looking at 2019 stats as 2020 will be an anomaly due to lockdown:

'UK estimates suggest that 740 people per 100 000 population per year are bitten by dogs with 250,000 people attending minor injury and emergency units each year due to dog bites.'

So actually I would say incidents with dogs are pretty common!

@Poorlykitten

I live in a village in a national park, dog owners don’t have a great record round here I’m afraid. A lot (and I mean A LOT) of dog crap left around or hung in trees and worse than that, most dog owners seem to think it’s okay to have their dogs off lease through livestock. It’s not. Sheep are regularly maimed and killed because owners are careless, thoughtless idiots. Most dog owners I know venerate their animals to such an extent they don’t believe they could do something as hideous as ripping a ewe limb from limb but it happens regularly and it’s heartbreaking.

VENERATE is exactly the right word dogs are worshipped as if they are are gods in canine form who can do no wrong Following behind the animal and picking up it's sh1t also constitutes an act of veneration, this is part of the reason we have such a problem with dogs, the requirement* to pick up the shit has led people to unconsciously feel as if the animal is a deity . (*I am not saying that people shouldn't pick up, just pointing at an unfortunate side effect)

Dontdisturbmenow, it's not just my opinion, it is fact- a dog is an animal and a child is a human being. That's some funny logic you have and actually, people who treat there dogs as equals to human beings are denying their natural animal instincts. There is a lovely collier dog on our road, that never jumps up at my DC, has great recall, fetches a frisby, puts it at your feet to throw for him, he's great and my youngest loves him. He is hardly ever on a lead so must live a great life. My DD's friend on the other hand has an indulged fur baby, that even though is getting on to two years old, is still 'nipping', still jumping up at you, I wouldn't care about that but it ruined my best jumper as pulled the thread, chased my DD up the stairs and she ended up seriously banging her head. All the while the owner is dismissive and suggests it's because he is still a puppy. It's ridiculous and is limiting to to the dog as it can never be off the lead, never run off the energy it has.

Yep dogs are definitely being put to high a pedestal in peoples lives

A lady in my Facebook was actually considering emergency vet at 11pm because her dogs nail was bleeding! Seriously nuts

All my pets are loved well fed and have full lives but they are my pets. We have household rules and particularly when visitors are in the house they are not allowed to be annoying or pester them. If they attempt it they are taken to another room.

[quote Mittens030869]@LtGreggs

No, all dog owners DON'T do that. My friend takes extra bags with her when going on dog walks in order to pick up the dog shit left by other dogs. Her DDs go with her some of the time and she doesn't want them stepping in other dogs' shit!

You might just as well say that all parents allow their DC to run wild in restaurants. We know that this isn't true either! [/quote]
I bang on about this all time. Instead of taking to neighbourhood FB groups and moaning about dog shit, pick one up, if you're picking your own dog's crap up then one more won't hurt. I suggested this as a solution to said moaner and got flamed.

They couldn't understand that there was a simple solution to the problem they were moaning about.

We have to take some responsibility for it.

What these threads show is how critical some parents are about dogs yet think nothing of their kids being a complete nuisance to others. What some will tolerate of dogs or kids is very fast. For instance I don't mi do at all for dogs to come to me, even jump if they are still very young, learning and owners are apologetic. But kids, screaming, shouting, bumping into you without a care and unable to mouth sorry, I find extremely annoying

I mind very much if a dog (young or not) comes up for a sniff or jumps up at me or trips me up.

It would receive a firm ‘leave it!’ command from me especially if I have my youngest with me, who fears dogs and tends to scream and run when a dog runs at her (and we all know how dogs love to chase!) I try to get between her and the dog and have told her countless times not to scream and run. BTW she’s fine with dogs on leads, she just doesn’t want them licking her face or knocking her into the mud (which triggered the fear originally, over-excited puppies do knock toddlers into mud rather often!)

If a screaming, shouting kid bumps into me I’d either assume they’re frightened; or so excited they didn’t see me. If the latter they’d get reminded to watch where they’re going.

When DD was tiny she was very fast and had no recall so I kept her on reins (the backpack type) until she was old enough to be sensible.

Few kids run up to strangers and bump them or hug or sniff them on purpose! If they did I’d assume SEN and be far more tolerant than with an animal because... well they’re humans!
It’s usually an accident (eg running or scootering too fast or not looking where they’re going). If my DD bumped into someone I’d have no problem with that person giving her a sharp reprimand.

I’d be mortified if my child OR a dog I was walking frightened someone by bounding up to them, and apologise profusely. Especially elderly people or those with mobility aids who may be unsteady on their feet.

@Poorlykitten

25 years ago hardly any people owned dogs compared to the extend they do today. More dogs, more problems, more noticeable?

This is undoubtedly part of the problem, because so many people have dogs it feels as if having a dog is something that everyone just does ....so everyone just gets one without realising how much time effort expense and inconvenience is involved ....IF you are to be a good responsible dog owner.

Dogs should be treated kindly of course but they should also be treated as subordinate to humans, they should not be lauded and feted and given right of way over and above humans.

'UK estimates suggest that 740 people per 100 000 population per year are bitten by dogs with 250,000 people attending minor injury and emergency units each year due to dog bites.'
That's actually very low in terms of accidents and the majority of the injured will be within their household, not strangers.

It's not just my opinion, it is fact- a dog is an animal and a child is a human being
So it's ok and acceptable that a kid cause an accident sur to their parents enability to look after them properly but it isn't when it's a dog? Neither is, but it doesn't mean that the entire species should be denied some freedom because of a very few insubordinate.

be far more tolerant than with an animal because... well they’re humans!
Good for you, I tend to be less tolerant of humans because after a certain age, they should know better, dogs don't.

Actually I'm 51 and, as I recall, plenty of people had dogs 25 years ago. I think the difference is that they were a lot better behaved, and there was a lot less of this 'fur baby' business. They were treated like pets and subordinate to humans.

I don't recall so many people having more than one dog.

Back in the day you could think of yourself as a dog person or a dog lover if you had one dog, now it seems that in order to qualify or reach the upper ranks of dog ownership you have to have several dogs or better still several large exotic expensive dogs
There's a kind of arms race going on, a bit like there is with cars, bigger and bigger suvs,
meanwhile the pavements are covered in dog mess and the roads are getting shaken to bits☹️

Good for you, I tend to be less tolerant of humans because after a certain age, they should know better, dogs don't

Dogs don’t know better, but the owners should!

@dontdisturbmenow
You're arguing that we should be tolerant of animals because they don't know any better?
We don't just let animals do their thing because they don't know any better, we control them so they don't inconvenience and damage humans.

Poorlykitten
25 years ago hardly any people owned dogs compared to the extend they do today. More dogs, more problems, more noticeable

I grew up in the 70’s. Most houses in my area had a dog. We had a dog as did 90% of my friends. Dogs were not taken for walks. They were allowed to roam all day and play outdoors with the kids after school. There was a lot more dog crap over the pavements - usually white and crumbly, due to it being common place for dogs to survive on bones (and table scraps).

To the two arseholes walking their huge, boxer type dog down by the river this morning. It doesn't matter that "he's just being friendly" when he runs at a scared 12kg dog on a lead. The scared dog doesn't know that, she's just wants him to get the fuck away so yes she will show her teeth as a warning. It does not mean she's aggressive, she isn't.

As I politely tried to explain, it's poor form to allow a dog to charge at another, particularly when the other dog is on a lead. It is most certainly not "what dogs do", at least it shouldn't be. Stop being a lazy, entitled owner and either hold on to your dog or slip it's lead on when passing another dog. That's all.

I will decline your order to "take a chill pill" but I will continue to advocate for my dog.

I have recently moved to a city in Canada, we brought the dog, the big difference here is you have to keep your dog on lead at all times except in a dog park.
It’s so different here, no dogs running up to strangers or knocking over children. Other dog owners are very polite and ask if their dog can say hello. Lots of dogs running on lead with owners
You can’t miss a poo, because you have them on lead so if you don’t pick it up it’s because you are irresponsible

Yes - the streets in Canada weren't full of dog shit! That's what we need here. In parts of the US dogs have to be on a lead of a certain length, not on those stretchy things where dog owners can let them jump on you and shut in the road and plead ignorance when you call out to them.
Fed up of the stretchy lead brigade who allow the lead to stretch across the pavement and force pedestrians onto the road.

Why can't we do things sensibly and have proper rules like they do in Canada and the USA 🤷‍♀️
This canine free-for-all is bad for everyone ☹️

An Airedale ran up to us, in the park yesterday. It was energetically jumping up at us. The owner had no control over it whatsoever and it nearly knocked my husband over. The owner shouted over and said "stop waving your arms about, it's your fault she's jumping up and anyway she's only a puppy".

I wasn't impressed at all. So rather than having a large dog, puppy my arse, under control, the thing you do now is shout at the people your dog is terrorising.

I replied that his dog needed training and to get it on a long lead so they could control it.

These new dog owners need training.

Part of the current problem is that so many puppies have been acquired in the last them months while there haven’t been any puppy classes for training or socialisation. When we got ours we signed up for classes, despite being experienced dog owners, so she got used to being around other dogs. It really helped.

Ten months, ffs!

Dontdisturbmenow, it's not just my opinion, it is fact- a dog is an animal and a child is a human being.

Actually if you wanted to get all factual; a dog is an animal but so is is human being. Why do other people do frequently forget we are also animals?

That being said the anthropomorphism of dogs is a problem and one that can often lead to behavioural problems in the animal.

I don't anthropomorphise my dog but that doesn't stop me from recognising her sentience and seeing her as a part of the family. It is possible to love your dog and include them in the family while still understanding that they are a dog with doggy instincts. The way some of you go on about dogs on here it sounds as if you think they are inanimate objects.

For the purposes of the law and human rights there is a distinction- not quite sure why that needs pointing out! Besides, if your argument is along that line of thinking then you should not have a pet dog at all, it should not be your property or your form of entertainment!

@greatpurplepolkadots

To those saying in real life they don't come across these opinions and people are most understanding - I think what you will find here is that on Mumsnet it's anonymous and people are more likely to tell you what they really feel.

In real life all I want to do is get away from the situation as quickly as I can, not try and educate you on how selfish you're being. I suspect a lot of other people who are scared / allergic / just don't want to be near the animal you've just proven you have very limited control over are the same.

This! This! This! This is exactly what I think too. It baffles me how people can just go through life convinced that nobody else in the world has ever had a problem with their dog or wouldn't welcome their dog's "friendly" overtures just because people smile politely (through gritted teeth!) when it happens.

I once told someone that their dog should've been on a lead and got a mouthful of very sweary abuse (in front of my 3 year old). I don't say anything now, but that doesn't mean I'm not thinking it.

@Bilgepumper

These new dog owners need training.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head!

I was specifically replying to a point, a ludicrous one, that compares children and pet dogs in a park setting. The child has far more rights than the dog and that is a fact.

@tenbananasaday

I can't help but wonder if you take the same stance with people who foster troubled children though. Are they also persuing an interest or hobby through self gratification and out of self indulgence....

No. For more info see @Goldenbear

For the purposes of the law and human rights there is a distinction- not quite sure why that needs pointing out! Besides, if your argument is along that line of thinking then you should not have a pet dog at all, it should not be your property or your form of entertainment!