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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Fucking bitches????

131 replies

SunsetSenora · 04/02/2021 23:17

Called in to a group call tonight, group of 6 women I have known for a long time and have had weekly zooms with since March. I lost my mother a few weeks ago after a year of hell and am waiting to be able to bury her. I have not been calling into this group since mum died, because I dont want to be a downer to everyone on what is usually a quite light and fun chat. But I thought tonight I would be nice to say hello for a few minutes. They were in the middle of a chat about music they used to listen to when they were younger when I joined the call. And just kept talking about that. Like, not just one more comment, but about 5 or 6 with no end in sight. I get that I am not the centre of the universe, but would you wait to get round to checking in with a bereaved friend because you were still talking about good records to dance to? I ended up saying I had to go but think they are a bunch of fucking bitches for the way they behaved. YABU - yes, I would expect to fit it into the conversation later. YANBU - I would say it immediately.

OP posts:
Bumblesbumbles · 05/02/2021 07:12

In my experience people don’t know what to say and worry about upsetting the grieving person. But it makes it more awkward and isolating for those grieving.
Of course they should have stopped and asked how you were etc? I assume they hadn’t chatted to you previously though?
For those on here who say they don’t know what to say- just ask how the person is and that you’re sorry about what they’ve been through. Seriously it’s important to someone grieving and they won’t forget you didn’t say anything...
Op- I’m really sorry about the loss of your mother

swallowinthesky · 05/02/2021 07:16

In my experience people don’t know what to say

I read and hear this all the time and it baffles me.

It’s perfectly possible and acceptable and polite to simply say ‘I am so sorry to hear your mum has died’.

IndecentFeminist · 05/02/2021 07:17

I don't know, I think if you're late joining it's ok to wait until the current conversation has finished before starting a new one.

bettbattenburg · 05/02/2021 07:20

In that situation I would have wanted them to do what your friends did, if I'd gone into a lighthearted group chat then I'd want it to stay that way as I'd have done it for some mental respite from the grief and so wouldn't have wanted it mentioned at all.

It's impossible for friends to know what we want as we are all different so no, they are not bitches.

Sorry for your loss, it's a horrible time to lose a parent isn't it? Thanks

DemolitionBarbie · 05/02/2021 07:26

I'm sorry to hear about your mum. It must be a really hard time.

Unless there are other circumstances, I wouldn't take this to mean they don't care.

I'm on a group zoom with someone whose mother has a terminal illness and lives abroad. I don't ask her about it as I imagine she might want a group chat to be a break from thinking about it, and she might get upset when she doesn't want to, or not want to share in front of a full group. I ask about it privately instead.

Meeting in person, you could have separate chats around a table that aren't possible on zoom, it limits things. It's also not clear who is 'hosting' and responsible for taking the lead on things like this. Unless they're awful in other ways, I wouldn't take it as them not caring.

lucylouz · 05/02/2021 07:55

@Bigbigbirfday

I’ve had a group zoom tonight and I could only see the last person that spoke. It’s perfectly possible they didn’t know you were there.
This is very true. If I'm on a zoom on my phone I don't know when someone joins. So maybe only the host of the call knew you were there? I think it might be different if you are on a laptop. Has anyone contacted you since the call?
Iknowwhatudidlastsummer · 05/02/2021 08:50

I would have been in touch with a friend

but I would never brought it up in a group on a zoom meeting!
It's awful to put people on the post, I'd leave it to them to decide and see how the conversation goes.

catsmother · 05/02/2021 08:59

Hello OP, I'm very sorry to read about your lovely mum. You must feel so shocked.

I'm afraid I have no personal experience of either the logistics or etiquette surrounding Zoom calls but notwithstanding some of the practical considerations others have already mentioned I do understand your hurt and disappointment at the way a good proportion of your friendship group has acted since finding out about your bereavement.

Certainly, I would have expected, or at least hoped, that 'a few weeks' would have been long enough for my closest friends to contact me in one way or another to both acknowledge my loss, and/or to show some concern for how I was bearing up (or not). I can easily imagine feeling rather upset and bewildered in your situation by their silence and if they were people I felt close to, perhaps making excuses for them (not least Covid related worries for example) rather than consider they simply didn't care or that our friendship was less important to them.

With that in mind I can also imagine joining that Zoom call thinking surely if I'm right there in front of them, those who've not yet been in touch will finally say something. Surely they'll at least tell me it's lovely to see me. Surely they'll simply ask me how I am even if they feel too awkward or whatever to refer directly to my mum's death. I might even have thought that they'd have contacted me privately after I left to ask if I was alright.

So yes..... I totally get how angry you feel. Because you placed an opportunity for your friends to be..... well, friendly and compassionate, right in front of them.... and they still didn't make that connection with you even though you'd made it 'easy' for anyone who may thus far have been avoiding you because they 'didn't know what to say'.

It's crap, it really is. Of course bereavement and grief is an emotive situation and obviously, most people wouldn't want to make someone going through the process feel any worse than they already do. But why oh why does anyone imagine that completely ignoring someone is the best course of action to take? A simple sympathy card is better than nothing and takes very little effort if you really don't have it in you to pen some personal words. On the other hand if you really are genuinely scared of saying the 'wrong thing' then what on earth is wrong with literally saying 'I don't know what to say but my heart's breaking for you and I want you to know you're in my thoughts'. The way I look at it is that regardless of any awawardness I might feel, the bereaved party will be feeling a million times worse so if I care about them I can bloody well make a bit of effort, put my discomfort to the side and reach out in some way. It doesn't have to be major, or involve grand gestures, particularly if you have pressing issues happening in your own life but it's about acknowledging that someone you allegedly care about has received this body blow. I think it's natural when you've been bereaved to feel very out of kilter, and see the world carrying on as before, as if everything was 'normal' when for you, personally, it's anything but. That can be very hard to come to terms with as it seems so surreal. When others fail to mention the person who's died and/or show concern for those left bereft it can almost feel like they're unspokenly suggesting they never existed at all.

I really don't know what else to say to you OP at this point. I'm sorry you've found out you have fairweather friends at a time you genuinely need them. I personally don't think there's any (or at least not many) excuse(s) for their attitude. And presumably if they were going through major traumas of their own right now which justified their silence you'd almost certainly know about it. And the chances of all four of them being in that boat are particularly unlikely. FWIW I think they've been incredibly thoughtless, unkind even. And now you're also going to be dealing with the loss of friendships because even if you do remain in touch I suspect you won't easily be able to get over this and the dynamic will alter anyway.

All I can suggest is that if you need to, you reach out and depend upon those friends and family who have contacted you rather than waste any further emotional energy fretting about those who haven't. Possibly easier said than done I admit. This is such an awful time to be trying to learn to live with a bereavement because so many of the usual interpersonal rituals (like well attended funerals and wakes) behaviours (hugs, meeting indoors) and activities which might otherwise provide a little respite from overwhelming thoughts are impossible. Everyone knows that. And it's perhaps even more important than usual therefore that you reach out when someone you know is grieving. I really do think you've been badly let down and your anger is understandable. All this upset, hurt, re-evaluation of friendships could have been avoided by what, taking half an hour or even less to show a little concern. It's very sad.

Onemorefortheroad · 05/02/2021 09:08

So sorry for your loss ❤️

Just wondering though, on calls Iv been on recently, if a few of us are mid conversation, we have carried that on for a bit before changing to check in with anyone that's joined late? Maybe they were getting to that to once they had discussed what they were in the middle of rather than stopping mid flow and changing the subject?

Daydrambeliever · 05/02/2021 09:08

I am sorry for your loss. Flowers
I don't talk to people about serious or heavy topics in a group of people - particularly if they are not very close friends. I would wait until I was alone with the person. I don't like having an audience for grief or pain and I would not want to put someone on the spot in a video call. I might at a push have said hello and asked how you were holding up.

Mary46 · 05/02/2021 09:14

Sorry for your loss op. Yes they could have been nicer about it.

Blackberrycream · 05/02/2021 09:32

They probably thought it would not be the right time to talk and would upset you. Some people really struggle with knowing the right thing to say. If they are generally good friends, take them as they are.
I had a bit of this after I lost my husband. One friend avoided me for nearly a year. His wife told me that he told her he didn’t know what to say and in the end she told him he had to deal with it ( that was the most extreme example). On the other hand some people I hardly knew were extremely kind. I think people who have been through a difficult bereavement are often better able to know how to approach it. Some people can be quite clumsy but it’s not deliberate ( I was probably guilty of this in the past).
Grief can also become anger so take care. Some of your friendships may become stronger and some may fade but now is the not the time to focus on that.
I’m sorry about your mum.

alphabetsoup1980 · 05/02/2021 12:08

I really think you're being unreasonable here! They might not have wanted to bring YOU down by reminding you of your loss...

I am sorry for your loss, they probably aren't sure whether or not for me toon it!! x

burnoutbabe · 05/02/2021 12:24

in a pub meet up of friends, I would have waited until a quiet point, sitting by the friend, to say I was sort and how was she getting on.

Not as she arrived, stopped all chat and made her the spotlight.

In a group zoom call, I'd not mention it directly unless brought up by the person in response to a general "how you getting on" so they can either say fine, or say more. ie let us know if they want to discuss it or just not discuss it.

Grandfather · 05/02/2021 23:49

I Apologise if i offended anyone
Im diagnosed as Autistic My grandchildren are much more autistic than me they do not even have speech, Social skills are not our strong points Honesty is WE ARE NOT STUPID sometimes life hits you hard and you need to cry out and all people offer are false hopes and soft words These things do not help you stand up and recover
Real help is difficult to find and zoom can never replace a loving hug
ThePluckOfTheCoward

willloman · 05/02/2021 23:56

Yeah they were cows. Damn weird not to say something. How old are they -ten?

icedgem85 · 06/02/2021 08:40

I’m very sorry about your mum! I put YABU just because they might have thought you joined for some light relief / casual chat and if they all stopped their ‘fun’ conversation to give you sympathy they might think that’s the absolute opposite of what you want. Zoom is hard to navigate, in real life I’m sure they’d have given you a hug. They were probably trying to avoid upsetting you which sounds silly but I would imagine there were kind intentions. I hope you’ve managed to speak to them about your mum since x

Bluntness100 · 06/02/2021 08:47

This is an extreme reaction I think driven by grief

I would message you privately after your bereavement I would not do more than say hi on the group call a few weeks later , with likely a “how are you” in a lull in the conversation, many peoooe wouldn’t wish the call to be made about them or their bereavement, many not wishing to discuss it in a group setting.

I suspect you called in with the expectation they would give you attention becayse you’d missed some calls and were bereaved so were angry and hurt when you realised they were just getting on with it and left.

I’m sorry about your mum but the reality is they likely were trying to be sensitive, for many people grief is a private thing.

KitKat1985 · 06/02/2021 09:20

I think you are being slightly unreasonable sorry. It sounds like you joined the call when they were mid-conversation so I think it's okay that they continued that chat for a bit. And then it sounds like you left before they really had a chance to talk to you. Also I would possibly be a bit wary of asking anything too sensitive / personal on a group call.

I think the most important thing is have they have contacted you at all since your Mum died and asked how you are? If they haven't asked at all and your Mum died a few weeks ago then I can understand your frustration more.

Pinkdelight3 · 06/02/2021 10:23

You said you've been avoiding the calls recentlyand that it's a fun light chat place that you didn't want to bring down, so it's fair of them to assume that you've come back for the chat and to be distracted from your grief. Hence it makes sense that they carried on (after a welcoming wave) and expected you to go with the flow rather than stopping instantly and making it about your loss, which could well have been completely the wrong thing to do and upset you when you went there looking for the opposite. There is nothing to say that they wouldn't have come to asking how you were doing when that bit of the chat naturally moved on, but I really don't think you can deem them 'fucking bitches' from what you've described and I think that's really harsh and shows you weren't ready to rejoin the group at all. Zoom calls with more than a couple of people can be really hard to manage and I think you're reading way too much into this because of where your head is at. Talk to people individually if that's the best for what you can cope with right now.

Mistystar99 · 06/02/2021 11:36

Calling them fucking bitches behind their backs because you didn't get the attention you wanted at a time you wanted is shitty behaviour.

feistyoneyouare · 06/02/2021 18:57

@Mistystar99

Calling them fucking bitches behind their backs because you didn't get the attention you wanted at a time you wanted is shitty behaviour.
More shitty than these so-called friends not acknowledging the OP's loss? Can't believe some of the insensitive comments on this thread.

I'm very sorry for your loss OP. For what it's worth I do think they behaved like fucking bitches. You don't just ignore a loss of this magnitude in someone's life if you care anything about their feelings.

ElectraBlue · 06/02/2021 19:10

I am sorry for your loss but is a group zoom call really the place for condolences? I would expect that your friend would have already contacted you individually to give you their support in private. It seems a case that you might not be really ready to socialise (virtually) and do light-hearted things with a group yet.

LadyLaSnack · 06/02/2021 19:27

So sorry for your loss OP.

My friend's mum died suddenly last year and up until that happened we had been having regular group catch ups with the group of close female friends. After her mum's death I had tried to make contact/help in various (gentle) ways, but it ended up that the first time I spoke to her was on the weekly group zoom. That zoom was horrendous for her, and awful for us. This is a sensitive + caring group of friends but all of us were lost as how to handle this on that medium. When one of us asked how she was it felt (to her and to us) like she was being stuck in the spotlight. When she tried to tell us connection issues meant we couldn't hear what she was saying to be able to respond.

One of the biggest problems (in hindsight) is that due to the fact that only one person can be heard at once, zoom requires someone to 'take charge' and drive the conversation in every moment (this person can switch around). That kind of dynamic is completely inappropriate in communicating with someone who has been recently bereaved.

That call was so awful that those weekly catch ups still haven't come back - I guess no one wanted to put my friend in that situation again, but at the same time having a call and not talking about it seemed equally as heartless.

saraclara · 06/02/2021 20:51

When one of us asked how she was it felt (to her and to us) like she was being stuck in the spotlight

Yep. I tried to express this earlier on, but you put it better. It's just entirely the wrong medium for being sensitive, subtle and quietly questioning. Anyone being asked about anything, never mind how they're feeling after a bereavement, suddenly has everyone on the call staring at them.

I couldn't have borne that after I lost my husband. One or two people asking after me quietly and gently, was fine. Thrust into a spotlight, on a screen, with six people waiting for my answer? Ugh.

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