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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To remove dd from RS

473 replies

MossandRoy · 04/02/2021 10:39

The lack of balance is annoying. There is an assumption that there is a god. There is an assumption that everyone believes in that god. I can remove her. Has anyone done this successfully? I'm concerned she'll be given a hard time...

OP posts:
SnackSizeRaisin · 04/02/2021 20:38

If she's had issues with RS since year 2 (stated proudly by mum) that does suggest a problem with her that is probably coming from you - not a problem with this one teacher. Are you perhaps instilling a contempt for religious beliefs that is making her feel she can't learn anything in this subject, or that religion isn't interesting? An 11 year old doesn't know all there is to know on this topic even if they think they do. It won't do her any harm to sit and listen and then discuss it reasonably either in class or with you at home.

caligulascatharsis · 04/02/2021 20:40

[quote RootyT00t]@caligulascatharsis the same reason they now have to do PE. It's a legal requirement[/quote]
It's not a legal requirement to sing hymns and pray though is it?

caligulascatharsis · 04/02/2021 20:43

I don't believe atheists should be treated the same as those who have different religious beliefs, it's not comparable.

What are you talking about? It's comparable by virtue of the fact that it is about not believing in Christianity. It's the same principle. Simply parroting 'it's not comparable' doesn't make it true. Come on, employ some critical thinking.

Hotzenplotz · 04/02/2021 20:46

I'm an atheist and studied RE at GCSE many years ago. It didn't do me any harm.

Moonbjerget · 04/02/2021 20:56

Because , on the whole, and I say this again as an atheist, IME I've seen many a teen simply saying I don't believe in it so I'm not going.

Comparing that to a Muslim who can't attend is disrespectful.

I'm sure there are people who have fully formed atheists beliefs in their teens, but for every one there is a teen who is at it.

Surely there are as many teens with 'fully formed atheist beliefs' as there are wich Christian or Muslim beliefs.

caligulascatharsis · 04/02/2021 21:00

@Moonbjerget

Quite!

How DARE these atheist kids say 'I don't believe in it so I'm not going'.

I'm still trying to figure out which bit of that sentence is disrespectful.

RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 21:01

@Moonbjerget

Because , on the whole, and I say this again as an atheist, IME I've seen many a teen simply saying I don't believe in it so I'm not going.

Comparing that to a Muslim who can't attend is disrespectful.

I'm sure there are people who have fully formed atheists beliefs in their teens, but for every one there is a teen who is at it.

Surely there are as many teens with 'fully formed atheist beliefs' as there are wich Christian or Muslim beliefs.

I would argue not.
RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 21:02

[quote caligulascatharsis]@Moonbjerget

Quite!

How DARE these atheist kids say 'I don't believe in it so I'm not going'.

I'm still trying to figure out which bit of that sentence is disrespectful.[/quote]
It's not disrespectful to say, it's disrespectful to compare.

You didn't answer my question.

How do we sort between the genuine and the not?

You must be able to say why schools are not keen to allow anyone who jsut "doesn't believe in it" to not go.

Also, as per your point above, is the new MN term critical thinking when someone has a different opinion to you?

Ninetyseventhirtyfive · 04/02/2021 21:10

So she is only happy to do subjects where she agrees with everything the teacher says? Surely learning about stuff she disagrees with will help her critical thinking and ability to engage in constructive criticism? Why would you want to withdraw her from that? If the teacher is saying there is a God, or making assumptions that everyone believes in God, and your DD disagrees then why doesn't she challenge the teacher in a polite way? Her views are valid, of course, but the subject is learning about what other people believe not about whether they are right to believe it or not.

Coyoacan · 04/02/2021 21:13

I'm old now, but had all the standard Anglican education as a child. I found that a good grounding in the Bible stood me in good stead when confronted by Born-Again Christians as an adult.

caligulascatharsis · 04/02/2021 21:25

*It's not disrespectful to say, it's disrespectful to compare.

You didn't answer my question.

How do we sort between the genuine and the not?

You must be able to say why schools are not keen to allow anyone who jsut "doesn't believe in it" to not go.

Also, as per your point above, is the new MN term critical thinking when someone has a different opinion to you?*

Why is it up to you to assess whether other people are 'genuine' atheists or not? Why is 'I don't believe in Christianity so I'm not praying/singing hymns' enough? It's not your place to 'sort' them in to categories of genuine or not.

I cannot believe that you think I should so readily agree that 'just anyone who says they don't believe' shouldn't be allowed to decline hymns and prayers. Well, of course they should. Isn't that the whole point? Being respectful of their choice not to take part? Like how atheists are expected to respect the beliefs of those who are of a religious persuasion, and all religious people should respect others religious beliefs and so on.

Tell me why you think that teenagers who don't believe in god should have to take part in hymns and prayers anyway, because I genuinely don't understand your perspective.

NB - the irony of you insinuating that I can't cope with people having different views to me when this entire back and forth with you is about your failure to accept that the students at your school may not have Christian beliefs Halo

onesixseven · 04/02/2021 21:28

"How do we sort between the genuine and the not?"

So if a pupil claims to be a Muslim so shouldn't have to do RE, how to you determine whether they are telling the truth?

RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 21:42

@caligulascatharsis

*It's not disrespectful to say, it's disrespectful to compare.

You didn't answer my question.

How do we sort between the genuine and the not?

You must be able to say why schools are not keen to allow anyone who jsut "doesn't believe in it" to not go.

Also, as per your point above, is the new MN term critical thinking when someone has a different opinion to you?*

Why is it up to you to assess whether other people are 'genuine' atheists or not? Why is 'I don't believe in Christianity so I'm not praying/singing hymns' enough? It's not your place to 'sort' them in to categories of genuine or not.

I cannot believe that you think I should so readily agree that 'just anyone who says they don't believe' shouldn't be allowed to decline hymns and prayers. Well, of course they should. Isn't that the whole point? Being respectful of their choice not to take part? Like how atheists are expected to respect the beliefs of those who are of a religious persuasion, and all religious people should respect others religious beliefs and so on.

Tell me why you think that teenagers who don't believe in god should have to take part in hymns and prayers anyway, because I genuinely don't understand your perspective.

NB - the irony of you insinuating that I can't cope with people having different views to me when this entire back and forth with you is about your failure to accept that the students at your school may not have Christian beliefs Halo

No, I haven't said I've got a failure to accept that the students at my school may not have Christian beliefs. I've never said that, you're putting words in my mouth. I also have not said that teenagers who don't believe in god shoul dhave to take part in hymns and prayers, never said that once either. Or that anyone who says they don't believe shouldn't be allowed to do hymns and prayers.

But I am looking outside the box here where "I don't believe" is an easy card to play. What happens when nobody goes to the assembly? Or when the kids that would like to go, are interested, maybe are on the fence have the piss taken out of them (seen that happen, many a time) and they too don't want to go? Or there ends up being 3 kids there because they are Christians and home wants them to and again that creates a massive divide?

As I've said repeatedly I am an atheist, and I don't believe anyone should be forced to do anything. However, it's all very well sitting on these boards saying my DD doesn't want to do it so she's not going to , but unfortunately we don't really live in a world like that and we need to find practical solutions, rather than just virtue signal that everyone shoul dbe able to do what they like when they like.

RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 21:42

@onesixseven

"How do we sort between the genuine and the not?"

So if a pupil claims to be a Muslim so shouldn't have to do RE, how to you determine whether they are telling the truth?

Being a Muslim doesn't mean you don't have to do RE.
HeidiHaughton · 04/02/2021 21:45

You can't seriously be suggesting that teenagers who don't want to do religious stuff in school have to do it to make those who do want to do it feel better.

onesixseven · 04/02/2021 21:46

They didn't at my school.

What about compulsory worship. Someone says they're Muslim and don't want to go they don't have to, but someone says they're atheist and they do?

HeidiHaughton · 04/02/2021 21:47

People seem to assume more respect for people who believe in a god than those who don't. Weird Christian values there.

Sarahandco · 04/02/2021 21:48

I think you shouldn't remove her, most societies have evolved from a religious foundation - to understand the religions is important.

HeidiHaughton · 04/02/2021 21:49

If religion isn't important to a child and family.they don't have to go. Simple. Freedom of conscience.

Sparklesocks · 04/02/2021 21:54

@HeidiHaughton

If religion isn't important to a child and family.they don't have to go. Simple. Freedom of conscience.
If maths isn’t important to them can they opt out of that too?
RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 21:57

@HeidiHaughton

You can't seriously be suggesting that teenagers who don't want to do religious stuff in school have to do it to make those who do want to do it feel better.
No. I'm not suggesting that.
caligulascatharsis · 04/02/2021 21:58

But I am looking outside the box here where "I don't believe" is an easy card to play. What happens when nobody goes to the assembly?

Well, there would be no more assemblies. Great! I'm struggling to find the cons.

RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 21:58

@HeidiHaughton

If religion isn't important to a child and family.they don't have to go. Simple. Freedom of conscience.
RE is a legal requirement.

They might not have to go to religious assemblies (which aren't even on at the moment, and even pre covid, they were few and far between because of people that complained about them) but they do have to go to RE (In Scotland anyway, I've read some posts about people having them withdrawn but I've never seen that be a thing except in very rare circumstances ie the topic is sensitive for the child).

RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 22:00

@caligulascatharsis

But I am looking outside the box here where "I don't believe" is an easy card to play. What happens when nobody goes to the assembly?

Well, there would be no more assemblies. Great! I'm struggling to find the cons.

But that's because you are on the side of the atheist here.

What about the many people who benefit from religious assemblies? To be honest they are few and far between , obviously non existent at the moment but pre covid only on occasions.

I personally think it's good for children to see that not agreeing with something doesn't automatically mean they don't have to do it.

I don't believe in god but I still go to church funerals and listen to people talking about Jesus and God because that's what the person/other people believe.

Absolutely, people should be able to have their own opinions but part of being an adult is learning to disagree respectfully, not just I'm not going and thats that.

RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 22:01

@HeidiHaughton

People seem to assume more respect for people who believe in a god than those who don't. Weird Christian values there.
Not really.