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Original poster

To remove dd from RS

473 replies

MossandRoy · 04/02/2021 10:39

The lack of balance is annoying. There is an assumption that there is a god. There is an assumption that everyone believes in that god. I can remove her. Has anyone done this successfully? I'm concerned she'll be given a hard time...

OP posts:
caligulascatharsis · 04/02/2021 22:01

But you are only applying this train of thought to atheists and not people of different religious persuasions.

caligulascatharsis · 04/02/2021 22:03

The people who benefit from Christian assemblies Hmm can go and celebrate their religion and do whatever they want in their own home or religious congregation. Not in a non faith school, compelling others who don't want to be involved to be involved.

RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 22:05

@caligulascatharsis

But you are only applying this train of thought to atheists and not people of different religious persuasions.
I'm actually not.

I don't necessarily believe it's the worst thing in the world for someone to listen to an assembly if they don't believe in the values. I think it's important we teach people to listen to different opinions,

However, I can absolutely see how a historically Muslim family, for example, would be more worried about their child attending a Christian assembly, than I would about a teenager who really isn't bothered either way but doesn't necessarily believe in God.

One is offensive/disrespectful to a religion, one is just someone attending something they don't necessarily agree with.

I'd take your point if I was of religious persuasion championing this, but I'm an atheist and even I can see the difference between atheism (fully formed atheism, as i'm not sure how one becomes an atheist if they refuse to attend RE lessons and assemblies to know what it is they don't believe in, other than just being told that by their parents) and a religion.

caligulascatharsis · 04/02/2021 22:05

If maths isn’t important to them can they opt out of that too?

I mean, speaking of non-comparable.

RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 22:06

@caligulascatharsis

The people who benefit from Christian assemblies Hmm can go and celebrate their religion and do whatever they want in their own home or religious congregation. Not in a non faith school, compelling others who don't want to be involved to be involved.
Why the face? Are you claiming that people don't benefit from Christianity?

Right.

But it's not them doing the compelling, it's the school.

So atheists can't be forced to go to assemblies with people who don't want to, but people who want to aren't allowed them because of people who don't want them?

RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 22:06

@caligulascatharsis

If maths isn’t important to them can they opt out of that too?

I mean, speaking of non-comparable.

Why is it non comparable?

RE is a legal part of the curriciulum.

HeidiHaughton · 04/02/2021 22:08

Maths is real. Religious belief is superstition.

Sparklesocks · 04/02/2021 22:08

@caligulascatharsis

If maths isn’t important to them can they opt out of that too?

I mean, speaking of non-comparable.

Why is it not? I don’t think pupils should be able to pick and choose and opt out of whichever subjects they don’t agree with.
caligulascatharsis · 04/02/2021 22:09

However, I can absolutely see how a historically Muslim family, for example, would be more worried about their child attending a Christian assembly, than I would about a teenager who really isn't bothered either way but doesn't necessarily believe in God.*

Why do you assume that the atheist teenagers aren't bothered either way but Muslim children are? You are completely placing more value on the beliefs of those who worship any form of god than non-believers.

Siepie · 04/02/2021 22:09

@KeflavikAirport

Well, like I say, religion is banned in schools where I live. People still appreciate art and music Hmm. If you want your kids to learn religion, it should be your job to teach them, not the school’s.
My parents taught me religion. That is, they taught me their strict interpretation of Christianity - 7 day creation, no sex outside of marriage, women should serve their husbands, etc.

In RE classes at school we explored different views in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, and other religions and humanist/atheist interpretations. GCSE RE was one of the things that made me start to question what my parents had taught me.

I don't think schools should have prayers or hymns or teach religion as fact. I do think that learning about what other people believe is very helpful, and helps counteract any religious indoctrination from parents.

pointythings · 04/02/2021 22:09

I don't have an issue with compulsory RE, as long as it is taught in terms of being about religions. It should also include ethical and philosophical concepts - my DD1's GCSE certainly did, and she thoroughly enjoyed it.

I do actually have an issue with compulsory assemblies - the requirement for a compulsory act of collective worship is ridiculous and completely not in the spirit of any faith. The words 'compulsory' and 'worship' should not go together in the same sentence, unless it's along the lines of 'compulsory worship is not a good idea'.

RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 22:10

@caligulascatharsis

* However, I can absolutely see how a historically Muslim family, for example, would be more worried about their child attending a Christian assembly, than I would about a teenager who really isn't bothered either way but doesn't necessarily believe in God.*

Why do you assume that the atheist teenagers aren't bothered either way but Muslim children are? You are completely placing more value on the beliefs of those who worship any form of god than non-believers.

Yes, I am.
RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 22:11

@HeidiHaughton

Maths is real. Religious belief is superstition.
Oh come on.

You must know that that's your opinion.

I don't believe in God either but I'm not arrogant enough to call it superstition and claim it shouldn't be taught.

bluebluezoo · 04/02/2021 22:11

My kids went to catholic school and were still taught a balanced RE curriculum. They learned about many religions and cultures.

I thought that was what RE was these days.

Even back in the 80’s our “RE” classes had very little to do with religious education in the traditional sense.

Sparklesocks · 04/02/2021 22:11

@HeidiHaughton

Maths is real. Religious belief is superstition.
Whether you are religious or not there’s still merit in studying the major religions academically, after all it is a big part of life on Earth even if not for you personally. It’s an extension of history, surely? Doesn’t mean you have to say Hail Marys or dedicate your life to Islam.
HeidiHaughton · 04/02/2021 22:12

Show me proof any god exists.

Sparklesocks · 04/02/2021 22:12

@HeidiHaughton

Show me proof any god exists.
What an utterly bizarre derailment
Siepie · 04/02/2021 22:13

So atheists can't be forced to go to assemblies with people who don't want to, but people who want to aren't allowed them because of people who don't want them?

You can send your child to as many religious events as you want in your free time. It shouldn't be compulsory for other children.

I expect there are parents at your children's school who would like there to be Islamic Friday prayers or Buddhist meditation or whatever lines up with their faith. Would you be happy for your children to be forced to take part in that? Or do you only agree with compulsory worship when it's for your religion?

HeidiHaughton · 04/02/2021 22:14

Why make anyone engage in an assembly to worship something they don't believe in and for which there's no proof.

EnjoyingTheSilence · 04/02/2021 22:14

I agree with you @MossandRoy dd2 is tired of being taught ‘facts’ and being told she’ll go to hell by other religious students with no input from the teacher

Dd1 also struggled when they discussed how homosexuality is wrong, again the teacher didn’t stop any of this.

I wish they would have a humanist section

caligulascatharsis · 04/02/2021 22:14

Because the laws of mathematics govern everything around us, we use mathematical concepts every day, it's a universal language, we use it for problem solving, finances, shopping, building, practically every career uses maths in some way, it helps us tell the time. Etc ad infinitum.

And singing hymns in the morning achieves nothing.

RootyT00t · 04/02/2021 22:14

@HeidiHaughton

Show me proof any god exists.
Eh?

are you on the wind up or genuinely unable to comprehend these posts?

I don't think it does.

Doesn't mean I'm arrogant enough to therefore decide that nobody else is allowed to have a belief.

Sparkle also spoke about studying it from a historical perspective so that doesn't relate in any way to your response either.

It is unfortunately attitudes like yours that create people who just say it doesn't exist end of and want it removed from the curriculum, instead of understanding and respecting other beliefs which is part of life. Children will not get very far if they spend their life just telling anyone who believes anything other than them that they are wrong and that's that, with zero understanding of the historical context or beliefs.

HeidiHaughton · 04/02/2021 22:15

And is meaningless.
My ds struggled with the normalization of homophobia in RS.

toocold54 · 04/02/2021 22:15

I thought I was teaching her that she has choices. And if she doesn't have to do something she disagrees with, she doesn't have to.

I’m a Science teacher. I teach things as fact although many things haven’t actually been proven they just haven’t been disproven. But I think everyone should learn it including those who are religious and don’t believe in evolution etc as without learning both sides they will never get to decide for themselves.

So I do feel like you are projecting your own feelings onto her and not giving her a chance to make up her own mind.

BungleandGeorge · 04/02/2021 22:15

Learning about religions is very different to practising a religion. The problem is that many schools push, particularly younger, children to practice a religion by making them pray, say grace, go to church services, sing hymns, believe bible stories are fact etc. I’m all for learning about religions, everyone of any belief system should be able to take part. The rest feels very much like indoctrination and imo is totally unnecessary and shouldn’t be a regular part of the school day.