To remove dd from RS

[MossandRoy]

The lack of balance is annoying. There is an assumption that there is a god. There is an assumption that everyone believes in that god. I can remove her. Has anyone done this successfully? I'm concerned she'll be given a hard time...

John White, religious education policy expert at the University of London agrees with me: www.researchgate.net/publication/248946111_Should_Religious_Education_Be_a_Compulsory_School_Subject

It’s turned into a puzzle

According to official EU data - I was wrong about Sweden anyway. The official data says there are 2 EU countries without an RE curriculum but one is France who do seem to be reintroducing it cautiously.

Canada, America, Aus seem to vary from state to state, but do teach in one way or another.

NZ teach it, but are very clear that it should be secular and not ever be religious instruction. Luxembourg don’t have religious instruction either, and no longer call it RE, but it seems to be covered in a subject about diversity and world views.

So there doesn’t seem to be lots in the West. But yes, there is one EU country that does not teach it at all, and one that has changed the format entirely to emphasise diversity (even as a Christian I’d have no issue with this in the U.K.)

Clearly I’ve not exhausted the world in my research- I know other countries do exist.

@KeflavikAirport

Still not convinced that average levels of bigotry in the UK are noticeably lower than countries that don’t teach RS.

Still not convinced that the level of bigotry you have demonstrated on this thread is ever going to change.

You really have a bee in your bonnet about RE classes in England (I'm not sure of the curriculum in other parts of the UK). Why are you so determined not to believe so many posters when they relate their personal experiences about RE teaching?

Since you don't even live here why are you so bothered

I don’t have a bee in my bonnet at all. Was this thread meant to be a one-way love in? Sorry I didn’t get the memo 🤔 Sorry if you don’t like it but if I am the only person defending the alternative POV then obviously I am going to be posting more than the 76th person coming on to say “teaching about religion is important mmkay”.

Plenty of people have given negative accounts of RE teaching, only for their experiences to be waved away as hearsay. I believe both sides.

I don’t think it is fair to accuse @KeflavikAirport f having a bee in her bonnet when all she is doing is arguing her corner - and responding to points made to her on the thread!

Yeh bit personal there Gin.

Thanks ladies. It’s ok, I have the hide of a 🦏

They don't have compulsory RE in America. But they don't have it in China or North Korea, either....

15:04KeflavikAirport
'Still not convinced that average levels of bigotry in the UK are noticeably lower than countries that don’t teach RS.'
Can I just say thank you for raising this issue? It's a good discussion to have. And forgive me for commenting so often. I have Covid and this is taking my mind off the coughing etc! But to add last comment....

Plenty of bigots in the Chinese government - look at what they are doing to the Uighurs (and Christians, too). And to have any faith at all in North Korea means you face long term imprisonment or death. I'd be amazed if they taught RE at all but I'm certain there is a lot less bigotry in the UK.

Otoh religion is everywhere in the USA and’s far more bigoted than the UK, so who knows. Too many factors at play to measure correlation in any meaningful way.

I've not read the thread but I don't feel too much time should be given to religion anymore. Whether people like it or not they are fast becoming irrelevant and it is or used to be more tribal than anything.
Dm used to say '' she's one of us '' ie Catholic...
Both my dd were at a religious school and I was loosely still stort of a believer but not now. I never said anything to dc pro or agaisnt and both vehemently were turned off religion and neither believe.

Apparently in the US it varies hugely state to state, but there’s no statutory requirement (I could be wrong, the internet throws up a lot of contradictory stuff)

I think NZ and Luxembourg have a good stance, but they haven’t just denied the existence of religion. It’s just taught in way in which no one religion is promoted above another, (Luxembourg taking the extra step to rename it.) We live in a multi faith society, so I’d have no issue with a curriculum that reflects that.

I don’t agree with a curriculum that denies religion exists, because it does. It doesn’t matter what you believe, you can’t control the beliefs of someone else and children need to learn respect and tolerance.

Religion or any other belief doesn't make you a nice person or a better person at all, we know amongst all religions lives great and wicked evil.... Shrouded in the cloak of religion and so called respectability.

Now all the true extent of the horrors from the Catholic Church have come out, other religions, isis etc.. Most people are repulsed.

You get good people and bad people and all those in between and it doesn't matter a jot what they do or don't believe.

@Snowsnowglorioussnow

Who said it makes you a better person?

@Snowsnowglorioussnow

Religion or any other belief doesn't make you a nice person or a better person at all, we know amongst all religions lives great and wicked evil.... Shrouded in the cloak of religion and so called respectability.

Now all the true extent of the horrors from the Catholic Church have come out, other religions, isis etc.. Most people are repulsed.

You get good people and bad people and all those in between and it doesn't matter a jot what they do or don't believe.

But what has that got to do with teaching children about religion? We live in a multicultural multi faith world. Our children need to know about and understand other people’s beliefs. It’s not about religion making someone a better person.

Too understand so much of the good and the bad of any religion you have to have an understanding of that religion in the first place

So GCSE RE goes in depth into Catholic pedophilia, Islamic terrorism, Hindus burning Muslims alive, Jewish fundamentalists illegally settling the West Bank and Buddhist terrorism against Rohingas? Or does it somewhat gloss over the nasty bits?

No, it doesn’t.

However, why do you think the French response to their terror attack was to reintroduce RE? I.e to build a subject into the curriculum that promoted tolerance and respect?

Denying religion exists isn’t going to stop bad people using faith as a smoke screen for their actions.

Are you suggesting lessons in tolerance, respect and the knowledge of other people’s culture and beliefs, leads to terrorism, murder and pedophilia?

France teaches about religion from a sociological POV in history, philosophy and literature classes. Which is more or less hat I have been arguing all along. It seems to have been doing so for a while, not specifically in response to recent terror attacks from what I can see on Google.

@Redburnett

Not sure I would bother removing her in a secondary school as she can form her own opinions. Having said that Christian RE teachers can be annoying. One of my DC once wrote 'God does not exist' on a test or exam paper - it was not well received.

In my gcse re exam, when I got to the big essay question at the end I was fed up and could not be arsed any more so I wrote "I refuse to answer this question on the grounds that it conflicts with my religious beliefs". I got an A*. Either I did really really well with all the other questions, or that answer went down well.

Are you suggesting lessons in tolerance, respect and the knowledge of other people’s culture and beliefs, leads to terrorism, murder and pedophilia?

Of course not. I am curious how much the unpleasant sides of contemporary religion feature in GCSE RE classes that are Apparently designed to promote tolerance. So far people have been mentioning jolly outings to gurdwaras etc, so I’m wondering how much airplay the downsides get. When I did RE back in the dark ages it was 100% Christianity all the way, by a teacher now serving a long prison sentence for child abuse incidentally.

That’s how RE is taught in the UK now. I’m yet to see an LAs syllabus that doesn’t teach all religions and Atheism/ Humanism etc and have respect and tolerance at its core.

So I apologise, I thought you disagreed with Religious Education being taught in schools, full stop. There’s a huge difference between Religious instruction (or what I would call Faith teaching) and Religious education.

And regarding GCSE, I can’t answer your question. I’m not a theologian or a secondary teacher. Sorry.