Is this normal. 2 kids who just don’t get on.

[j10111289]

Hi all, have two dc a boy and a girl aged 10&5. All they do is fight and argue. They literally cannot stand or sit close to each other at all without screaming at each other. They never play together! The rare occasion they do it doesn’t last long before they shout and argue. They cannot be in the back of the car together as they just pick at each other. We cannot go out anywhere without pushing, shouting and shoving each other. Who’s going first, who’s doing what! It’s driving me mad.

Aibu to think this is not normal? I know brothers and sisters fight but my two never get on. There’s never any nice bits in the day. They usually do their own thing Home schooling is hard as I cannot sit down with both of them as they end up arguing. I do some with DS whilst Dd plays and vice versa.

Both myself and dp didn’t have any siblings until we were teens so never experienced this first hand.

DS (oldest) is always saying nasty things to Dd. She can stand up for herself but she’s often told the school that her brother is horribke to her. I think it really upsets her.

Will they outgrow this?

I’m trying my best. Treat them both the same but try and have 1:1 time with both occasionally if the opportunity arises. When they are on their own they are really good but both together 😭

Advice?

I suspect your DS is very jealous some do just struggle more with the arrival of siblings.

I guess he had you for 5 years to himself and then when only having the capacity of a 2-3 the imposter arrived!

My brother and I never got on- we are just totally, utterly opposite personalities. We’d never be friends in real life, so living together wasn’t great. We can just about have a decent conversation at family dinners now. DH feels the same about his sister. I think it’s much more common than you’d think.

I have a similar age gap (4 years) but one thing I started early was zero tolerance for unkindness. So it’s not about making them like each other, or do things together - it’s about setting the standard that the first rule of our house is being kind to each other, and there are sanctions for intentionally/repeatedly breaking that rule.

They still scrap and wind each other up, but they know there are limits. Obviously things are pretty intense at the moment but that’s the one thing I’m not letting slide.

What sanctions do you apply for other misbehaviour? I’ll admit that a telling off would achieve very little for one of mine. This is a really important rule for me, so if they’re going out of their way to be nasty to their sibling they’ll get a consequence that has impact - eg screen ban, sent to room for x amount of time, loss of other privilege depending on the circumstance. Removing them from the situation usually works best for us and I like it as it’s a direct consequence of the behaviour - if you can’t behave well when you’re with your sibling, you need to be apart from your sibling for a while.

Is your son jealous of your daughter do you think, because of his SN? It stood out to me because mine have a similar dynamic although they are 9 years apart. They don't hate each other but they do wind each other up and bicker.

My son always struggled at school because of his needs (learning and behavioural). In contrast my daughter finds all school subjects easy, a bit of a teacher's pet, popular with lots of friends. H and I think he resents that a bit and feels it's unfair that she has it easy. I think he's also a bit fearful of her overtaking him in reading etc. A lot of his put downs are along the lines of calling her a "stupid baby" and mocking her for things she can't do yet. I think it partly comes from a deep seated fear and insecurity. To be honest he's now a lot better (since ADHD meds) but for a long time all we could do was separate them.

I have this with my eldest two children at the moment but they are 12 and 14. 14 year old never has a nice word to say about the 12 year old, constant put downs. I’ve blown my top with her today.

If all he gets is a telling off, no wonder he keeps doing it. He needs to see genuine consequences for his actions. Even if his mental age is only 7 or 8, that is plenty old enough to understand that being a dick to his sister = no screen time, therefore don't do it.

My sibling and I have never ever gotten along. We put up with eachother when we have to see eachother now, but other than that, we don't talk at all and know nothing about each others lives. They feel they weren't treated fairly by my mum so I'd say that's one thing to keep in mind. Also, we used to hate being forced to do stuff with eachother. I really wish my parents let us be and didn't try to make us be friends, did far more damage than good to be honest. Finally, sometimes it's just a personality clash as well as heading into the teen years. I bet when push comes to shove, if one of them was in trouble, the other would be there in a heartbeat. I hope it gets better for you, it can't be easy!

I didn't get on well generally with my brother growing up. We are like chalk and cheese and we fought a lot. He struggled with anxiety and had a hard time teenage onwards.

Now he lives with me and my family, in an annexe in our garden. My kids adore him and he's a good uncle :) so..... things change although no consolation to you OP as often I think my parents didn't get the best of us. They are obviously glad we have each other now tho.

It's probably easy for me to say but I think my brother found life hard, and his unfriendliness stemmed from that. Maybe I would have been more understanding if I realised that as a child.

This is basically the age gap between me and my younger brother (5 years 10 months). We didn’t get along until I was around 18/19 and had left for uni! We fought all the time.

Now? He was best man for my husband at my wedding and we’re close! Honestly if they want to get along they will, it took us years!

I have a dd and ds quite close in age. They're a bit like cats: generally ignore each other, but occasionally flare up. She wants to play with him, he's too cool. She mithers. He snaps. I shout at both. She weeps dramatically. We roll our eyes.

@RandomMess

I suspect your DS is very jealous some do just struggle more with the arrival of siblings.

I guess he had you for 5 years to himself and then when only having the capacity of a 2-3 the imposter arrived!

It is a possibility. He has never expressed that he’s felt jealous, he struggles to explain how he feels (he was non verbal until 5 and still somewhat speech delayed now).

14 and 12 here.
These days I try and keep them in separate rooms (watching tv together isn't safe) and ask them not to talk to each other.
The last few years has been refereeing and separating fights. Always the youngests fault too.

I have a brother who is 5 years older then me. He abused me for my entire childhood. He made my life a living hell. I couldn't walk into a room without being shouted at and screamed and called a stupid fat bitch, getting pinned against the wall by someone twice my size screaming in my face is very terrifying as a child. I remeber walking home from school shaking when I was about 8 hoping he was dead.
It soon changed to wishing I was dead as there was no way to escape. I ended up suicidal fro most of my teenage years. I am now no contact with him for obvious reasons.

Sibling abuse is often seen as sibling rivalry. If your 5 year old is reaching out to school I would mabey take a look at the dynamics of the relationship. You said your son often starts it but your daughter is able to stand up for herself. If it was a bully in school treating her like this would you say you say it was kids fighting or would you talk to the school about their policy on bullying.

My cousins were like this- both girls, 3 years apart. Just didn’t get on at all growing up and never played together. Both are adults now and barely see each other despite having no other siblings. They were brought up in an otherwise loving happy home so I guess it just works out that way sometimes.

OP,
Some siblings may clash, I have definitely heard of it.

In my case I have always had an absolutely zero tolerance for being unkind to each other.
It was always a case of "in this house we speak and treat each other kindly..end of".
Bla bla bla..

I stopped anything that they were doing and put them out in the garden to get "fresh air" to give them a "rest from their annoyance".....honestly I made myself the annoyance...not each other.

So if they were at each other, they would see me coming, after at a certain point, and they would say oh for flip sake she's here🙄😁.....

I had zero tolerance for any name calling of any sort..and it was never an issue.

They are really great friends, they treat each other very kindly, they have a great laugh together, which is really great to see...... with 6 of us at home at the moment.

I would advise you to bore the arse off them about being kind, pep talk them EVERY morning, first thing, ... be very firm about your expectations about how they treat each other.

We were all about ..."in this house we love each other and treat each other kindly and only use nice words" etc.bla bla bla...I was like a record.

I appreciate it may sound happy clappy, but they have never laid a hand on each other and get on so well, and are respectful....I'm so grateful for this.

I can honestly say it is definitely one of the things that I am most proud of.

They find me annoying at times🤷🏻‍♀️..but I am happy to take the hit if they get on with each other into adulthood and beyond my lifetime.

To have your children get on well, be close and loving, supportive of each other, IMO, must be the most wonderful legacy of a marriage.

Perhaps your DS is expressing his jealousy the only way he can through his behaviour?

I suspect your DS is very jealous some do just struggle more with the arrival of siblings.

This may be the case but I must say I hate this as an excuse. I was 9 when my sister arrived and I was thrilled. Until it became apparent my mum would let her have all of my things and I’d have no privacy.

I’ve seen it several times and the resentment bred is inevitable but completely avoidable.

I have been very careful not to repeat the same mistakes with mine.

@Merryoldgoat it's a reason it should never be an excuse for it to be ignored/not dealt with.

Both are losers in this scenario as neither get to experience a healthy sibling relationship which is a mixture of conflict and love.

My older brother despised me and the damage great.

I wonder whether there's a bit of a circle going on here.

(She winds him up, sometimes as the starter.)
He says nasty things
You comfort her and tell him off.
He feels you always take her side and love her more.
So he says more nasty things.

Can you get him on side. tell him that if she's winding him, up (reasonably that is, not by breathing ) he can come and talk to you and you will move her, then praise him for not retaliating.
Praise him for the things he can do which she can't, that sort of thing.

And take time to spend with each on their own.

Tricky, I hated my brother growing up, he hated me. Never really got on, sorry.

If you are telling them off, are you inadvertently modelling the very tone of voice and attitude that you don't want from them? i.e. raised voice, angry tone, fierce facial expression, etc.
Try NOT 'telling off', but calmly and quietly give effective and meaningful punishments or sanctions.

To have someone 'say horrible things to you' on a daily basis, in your own home, is intolerable. It's sibling abuse and it will affect your DD now and into the future (this is well documented). Although she may be fiery, the fact that she is 5 years younger, literally half his age, must mean that she doesn't have the vocabulary or the emotional skills to properly deal with him. I know that it must be really stressful for you at the moment, but I do rather think that just giving him a telling off is not sufficient . . . . and clearly not working! We went through a short period when my DS would make snide comments at his DD who is two years younger and so after a couple of tellings off I institued a rule that he just couldn't be where she was since I couldn't trust him to be nice to her. If she wanted to watch TV then he had to go to another room. If she was playing in the living room then he had to exit etc etc. A couple of days of that and I gave him a chance to show me that he could trusted around his sister and he was A LOT more careful. I also privately reminded him how much she loved and looked up to him, even though she didn't always show it because her feelings were hurt, and I asked him to say something really positive or complimentary to her every day. He saw how she lit up when he said something nice, and then she would say something nice in response, and then we were in a virtuous circle. It's not perfect, but they get on fairly well now. Keeping his tongue in check with his sister has been a good lesson for him in general as he is now known as a peacemaker and a positive person amongst his friend group. I hope it gets better for you.

@wingsandstrings
You sound like a great mum. It's great to see that this is being understood more.

He pushes and shoves her? At 10, he's going to be a lot bigger than her. You need to have a zero tolerance approach to his violence towards her.

@Miseryl

He pushes and shoves her? At 10, he's going to be a lot bigger than her. You need to have a zero tolerance approach to his violence towards her.

No both of them push and shove each other, they push and shove each other all the time. That is not one sided. Often they fight who’s going to be first out the door etc. They’ve never really hurt each other other, never hit each other or anything. It’s more the verbal side that I’m worried about.