Confused about my feelings

[whatsthepointinwasps]

So, this is about family, It might be a bit long and complicated. It would be great if you manage to stick with it and get through to the end.
I have three grown up children:
DD (married, working, 2 children, not living close by)
DS1 (in longterm relationship, working, expecting first child)
DS2 (single, not working, MH difficulties)
Me (single, work full time, oversee care for DM with Alzheimer’s)
I recently had a discussion with my daughter about going on holiday as an extended group. When I mentioned that it would be nice if DM could come but that would only be feasible if everyone helped looked after her, not just leave all the caring to me my DD said ‘You are her daughter and as such her carer, it’s not anyone’s fault, it’s just the way it is. It’ll probably be the same for me with you and dad’.
I was taken aback by this and, truth be told, hurt.

So in the end I decided not to including my DM in the holiday plans, it’s not till next year anyway and she most likely will have declined too far.
We went abroad a couple of years ago, with DM, who was already struggling and I was left to manage it, to the point where I felt myself and DM were quite excluded.
I was hurt then by my DD’s and DS’s attitude, I don’t want to have the same experience again, especially as DM is now much worse, so that was also a reason not to include her.
Selfishly I want a holiday to be just that. Then again that is exactly what everyone else wants too. Perhaps I am being unfair to expect others to give a hand looking after mum, if it’s not a role I enjoy or a job I relish so why would I expect others to want to share it???
I am just confused as DD’s paternal grandfather had dementia and she was v hands on whenever they were together right up until the harrowing end.

So holiday is now booked but the conversation about ‘caring responsibilities’ really unsettled me.
I don’t expect any of my children to step in and take over, not at all. However I would like them to make more of an effort. After that conversation with DD I said that to ALL of them.
I also said I would not expect them to have to care for me when I need it, I have a plan for that already in place.
My two sons agreed they should do more in future but it’s difficult atm for a variety of reasons notwithstanding f**king COVID.
My daughter has not said a word.

I have, through out my entire life had a turbulent relationship with my own mother. I had a horrible childhood and adulthood didn’t really improve things. I care for her now as it’s the right thing to do but truthfully I feel pretty ambivalent towards her. It’s a terrible admission I know.

I don’t want that sort of relationship with my DD. Tension within the family really really bothers me but I find it difficult to have frank conversations with DD. I guess my biggest fear is that she feels the same lack of love towards me.
What to do?

Oh I never said in that lengthy post why it chose AIBU - I guess it’s AIBU to be hurt by my DD’s attitude?
Thanks again for your time

I think YABU to expect them to go on a holiday where it's not a holiday for them anymore. Especially if they're not close to your DM.

However YANBU to be hurt at your DDs attitude to caring for you.

It’s a tricky one. On the one hand I can absolutely see why your daughter wasn’t keen on a plan which involved all of you being carers to an elderly woman with Alzheimer’s while on holiday. It’s likely you would all have had a rotten time. That said, I think your daughter was a little cold and unsupportive in the way she expressed herself. But I don’t think it indicates lack of love - she’s showing that she intends to care for you one day if necessary, which I would view as an act of love.

I understand caring for your mum is hard. I really do. I've been there.

But I would not want to go on a group holiday where I would be expected to care for someone, unless that was the reason for the holiday if you see what I mean, like a 'last wish to see Paris' or similar.

Im sorry you thought your daughter was being cold, but honestly? If you were trying to push the idea maybe she was just trying to be clear.

And it does sound like she expects to care for you and your H when the time comes, which as pp said, is a good thing - she doesn't sound inherently selfish

OP,
What a pity your life has been so unhappy and yet you have chosen to be a carer for the person who caused you so much unhappiness.

Very sad.

Your daughter sounds very self absorbed and not a very kind person. Is she?

I think you are entitled to be hurt but is this in isolation?

That type of selfishness is who she is and can't be changed.
You have to accept who she is, adjust your expectations and not depend on her.

I think you should think about looking after yourself for once.

Is it also possible that if she was there with her grandfather throughout it all, it took a much bigger toll on her than you realise and while she will do it for her own mother (which i also view as an act of love), she doesn't want to do it again with anyone else?

Could it also be that your children have picked up on your relationship and attitude towards your mother and that's another reason for their distance here? You say yourself you didn't have a good relationship with her and that you feel ambivalent now (don't feel bad about that by the way).

I would struggle to feel warm to someone who my mother had a rocky relationship with. I kind of have this with one of my aunt's, much older than my mum. I've always been wary of her because of the way she treated my mum, and struggled to feel warm to her even when she was elderly and needed my support. I provided support and care at the time, but id be lying if I said I really put my heart in to it.

I think you're being unreasonable. She has her own children to take care of, without adding additional responsibility onto her during her own holiday. If that was put on my plate on a holiday I was paying for, I'd choose not to go. It sounds as though it's your own decision to want to take your mother so I think that's your choice and responsibility. I think it's unfair to pass that onto your children. I don't think it's the best idea to take someone with dementia into a potentially overwhelming situation. Why exactly were you considering taking her? Is it just so you can be dutiful to her as a daughter? And is that what you're expecting from your children?

I think YABU as you clearly have the option of having someone else look after your DM while you are away on holiday. You're DD has 2 children, I totally understand why she would rather not have to spend her holiday looking after her grandmother. Surely not taking your DM would be better for everyone anyway (probably including your DM)?

She has a job and 2 kids, and already did the dementia routine with one grandparent....you want her to go on holiday with you and mind her grandmother, with worsening Alzheimers, while also trying to give her 2 kids a nice holiday?

You're being completely unreasonable. Why would you even think of bringing your mother on holiday, it's unlikely she would enjoy it and would prevent anyone else enjoying the holiday too.

You don't even want to look after her, really, so why do you think your DD should?

I think your daughter was probably just trying to be clear - it wouldn't have been very relaxing as a holiday with your DM there.

Also, I wonder if she knows that your relationship with your DM has been turbulent, and she can see the impact that caring for her has on you. How does she feel about her? I wonder if she silently disagrees with the caring responsibility you've taken on, and would rather have you alone on the holiday so that you can relax yourself and she can enjoy spending time with her mother.

That sounds like quite a complex situation.

Is it not possible that your DD is influenced by witnessing (and sharing to some degree?) the "turbulent relationship" you have had with your mother?

I obviously don't know what has gone on, but if it were the case of your mother treating you badly for instance perhaps she doesn't share your view that sacrificing yourself to care for her is "the right thing" to do. Maybe she is trying to protect her boundaries if there have been issues in the past.

Do you resent your children for not being willing to sacrifice their own wellbeing in the way you felt obliged to do? That's how it comes across to me.

Your fears about your own relationship with your daughter - are they based in reality or are they a response to the emotions stirred up about your mum? Do you have different expectations of your daughter based on your own choices / the fact she's female?

There seem to be lots of different things going on at once here - some of them with your relationship with your mum, some with your relationship with yourself, and some with your relationship with your sons and daughter. Be careful not to mix them up to the point where one damaging relationship infects another.

Honestly, I think your daughter's attitude is disgusting. It's her grandmother at the end of the day, you are her mother so why would she not help if it was needed. When I was 13 I took care of my grandmother who was terminally ill whilst my mother went to work. Looking back, that should never have been put on my shoulders because I was far too young but it happened. On the other hand, maybe not the best decision to take your DM on holiday if she has declined considerably, especially if it was difficult last time. All the best to you x

What is it that makes you feel hurt? What meaning are you attributing to get words that feels hurtful to you?

I struggle to identify anything that could fairly be labelled an "attitude" from your daughter or anything directly hurtful in her actions, unless they're triggering something else internally for you. So what is that?

YANBU at all - I would also be hurt by your daughter's attitude and I can sympathise as I suspect DD1 might well be the same.

But TBH I wouldn't want to go on a family type holiday as you describe anyway. Having to fall in with other people's needs/wishes is no holiday as far as I'm concerned.

If you really want to spend time with your DD and grandchildren, which I completely understand, there is no way you should be taking your DM too. It's time for someone else to take up the slack and care for her while you have a break.

@pumpkinbump

Honestly, I think your daughter's attitude is disgusting. It's her grandmother at the end of the day, you are her mother so why would she not help if it was needed. When I was 13 I took care of my grandmother who was terminally ill whilst my mother went to work. Looking back, that should never have been put on my shoulders because I was far too young but it happened. On the other hand, maybe not the best decision to take your DM on holiday if she has declined considerably, especially if it was difficult last time. All the best to you x

Massive projection.

You recognise a 13 year old should never have been in that position, yet because it happened unjustly to you anybody else who protects themselves from it is "disgusting" ?

No.

I dont think yabu to be hurt by your dd comments.

But a holiday is a holiday, and dd has kids. She may want a holiday where she can just relax, and being told she would need to help out isn't exactly painting the picture of a relaxing holiday.

Massive projection.

You recognise a 13 year old should never have been in that position, yet because it happened unjustly to you anybody else who protects themselves from it is "disgusting" ?

No.

Couldn't quote sorry. The OPs daughter isn't a child. I don't feel I am projecting and I don't think caring responsibilities should be unjustly shouldered by anyone. The OP isn't asking for her daughter to be the sole carer in this situation, she is asking for a bit of help during her own caring responsibilities for her mother. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to ask for a bit of help from close family members if OP were to take her DM on holiday.

@pumpkinbump

Massive projection.

You recognise a 13 year old should never have been in that position, yet because it happened unjustly to you anybody else who protects themselves from it is "disgusting" ?

No.

Couldn't quote sorry. The OPs daughter isn't a child. I don't feel I am projecting and I don't think caring responsibilities should be unjustly shouldered by anyone. The OP isn't asking for her daughter to be the sole carer in this situation, she is asking for a bit of help during her own caring responsibilities for her mother. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to ask for a bit of help from close family members if OP were to take her DM on holiday.

Honestly If I was put in that position while trying to take my own children on a relaxing summer holiday I'd rather not go on holiday at all. It's odd the OP even suggested taking her DM when she's already said her mother probably wouldn't even be able to go by next year because her condition will have got so bad and she clearly has the means of going without her anyway

Why are you so insistent on taking your dm on this holiday?
I think that's a bit strange. especially as she is in ill health and unlikely to enjoy it.

When you were growing up did your mother bring her mother on all holidays and expect you to share the looking after of her?

I think it's far too much and most certainly doesn't sound anything like a holiday to me. Then again I would not like to go on holidays with any one else at all other than my dh / dc.

The odd weekend away I can cope with, but not a holiday.

Sorry OP I know it's not what you want to hear. I think your daughter is drawing some boundaries as she recognises that she has already done the lions share caring for her grandfather and now there's expectations around a grandmother she's perhaps not close to and then in time she'll be dealing with you and her father's old age. All the while juggling a job and her own dc in a pandemic!

Honestly, I think it isn't your daughter's responsibility to help care for your mother. She sounds incredibly busy with her own family and also works, so I can imagine that 1) she doesn't have time to take care of her grandmother and 2) she doesn't want to spend her (presumably only holiday of the year?) to be spent taking care of skmeone with Alzheimer's as then it very much wouldn't be a holiday. My grandmother also has Alzheimers and I love her SO much but I cannot and will not provide her care because I simply don't feel that I could take care of her. Alzheimer's, as of course you know is extraordinarily difficult to deal with and I don't feel I could keep her safe as I am not a professional. Like your daughter, I also have young children to take care of and I work. Taking on even part of the caring role for my grandmother would make my life impossibly difficult, and really negatively affect my mental health. You don't need to do it either - she could be taken care of by professionals like my grandmother is, and I am sure your daughter will make the effort to visit her. But if you choose to care for her yourself then I think you need to accept it was your choice and not expect your children to also take it on. If you can't manage it then she can go to a home and be taken care of by professionals.

From what you’ve said, I may be assuming things but it sounds like she wasn’t a particularly lovely grandma either? In which case all I can say is you reap what you sow. Me and DSis had a bad childhood with a not very nice mother. I wouldn’t care for her in her old age. Right thing to do or not. But DSis would. Maybe i’m just more bitter!

Anyway me and DSis have 2dc each, all grown up now. They barely know their grandmother and quite frankly don’t care about her. Why should they? She’s virtually a stranger and not a particularly nice one at that. I can’t imagine ever asking them to help with her care in any situation. I suspect your DD was just being honest and good for her.

My question would more so be why you feel obliged to care for someone who it sounds like they didn’t particularly care for you?

Also I'd just like to point out a couple of things I picked up from these parts of your post. First of all you say your DD was very hands on in caring for her Grandfather, did your DSs care for him much or at all? All your disappointment and hurt is directed at her because she being honest with you. Your DSs saying "Oh yes DM we will help more in the future" mean nothing, they're just words and most likely said for an easy life, I'd be interested to see if they follow through on that as well

*I am just confused as DD’s paternal grandfather had dementia and she was v hands on whenever they were together right up until the harrowing end.

However I would like them to make more of an effort. After that conversation with DD I said that to ALL of them.

My two sons agreed they should do more in future but it’s difficult atm for a variety of reasons notwithstanding fking COVID.
My daughter has not said a word.

Yabvu. You said you had a horrible childhood. Maybe your dd finds it hypocritical that you want to do this knowing the relationship you had with your dm. Maybe she didn't like her gm because of that??
And tbh it is no holiday for her, if she has to be available to help you out especially with two kids of her own.
I do feel that her perspective is coming from your relationship with your mother.

My experience was my dgm was very ill and lived with us from time to time. I was around 12/13 and my siblings and I were expected to care for her, like emptying the bedpan and helping her spit into a container and emptying it etc. We should have never been expected to do that. The effect its had on me is I feel repulsed to be put into this situation again. I don't expect anyone to do that for me either. Sorry off on a tangent here. But I'm just saying that I don't think your dd is wrong for how she feels. I really, really hate this obligation guilt people put on others.

I’m sorry op but I agree with your daughter, asking her to go on holiday and care for her ill grandmother is no holiday. A group holiday would sadly not involve her.

If your mother is not able to be at home without care then speak to social services, look at a care home etc, but this is your decision to care for her, you cannot guilt trip, request or ask your kids to do it too.