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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Confused about my feelings

86 replies

whatsthepointinwasps · 03/02/2021 10:30

So, this is about family, It might be a bit long and complicated. It would be great if you manage to stick with it and get through to the end.
I have three grown up children:
DD (married, working, 2 children, not living close by)
DS1 (in longterm relationship, working, expecting first child)
DS2 (single, not working, MH difficulties)
Me (single, work full time, oversee care for DM with Alzheimer’s)
I recently had a discussion with my daughter about going on holiday as an extended group. When I mentioned that it would be nice if DM could come but that would only be feasible if everyone helped looked after her, not just leave all the caring to me my DD said ‘You are her daughter and as such her carer, it’s not anyone’s fault, it’s just the way it is. It’ll probably be the same for me with you and dad’.
I was taken aback by this and, truth be told, hurt.

So in the end I decided not to including my DM in the holiday plans, it’s not till next year anyway and she most likely will have declined too far.
We went abroad a couple of years ago, with DM, who was already struggling and I was left to manage it, to the point where I felt myself and DM were quite excluded.
I was hurt then by my DD’s and DS’s attitude, I don’t want to have the same experience again, especially as DM is now much worse, so that was also a reason not to include her.
Selfishly I want a holiday to be just that. Then again that is exactly what everyone else wants too. Perhaps I am being unfair to expect others to give a hand looking after mum, if it’s not a role I enjoy or a job I relish so why would I expect others to want to share it???
I am just confused as DD’s paternal grandfather had dementia and she was v hands on whenever they were together right up until the harrowing end.

So holiday is now booked but the conversation about ‘caring responsibilities’ really unsettled me.
I don’t expect any of my children to step in and take over, not at all. However I would like them to make more of an effort. After that conversation with DD I said that to ALL of them.
I also said I would not expect them to have to care for me when I need it, I have a plan for that already in place.
My two sons agreed they should do more in future but it’s difficult atm for a variety of reasons notwithstanding f**king COVID.
My daughter has not said a word.

I have, through out my entire life had a turbulent relationship with my own mother. I had a horrible childhood and adulthood didn’t really improve things. I care for her now as it’s the right thing to do but truthfully I feel pretty ambivalent towards her. It’s a terrible admission I know.

I don’t want that sort of relationship with my DD. Tension within the family really really bothers me but I find it difficult to have frank conversations with DD. I guess my biggest fear is that she feels the same lack of love towards me.
What to do?

OP posts:

Vivi0 · 03/02/2021 16:45

You are being unreasonable. Very unreasonable.

In fact, I would even go as far as to say that you are actively scapegoating your daughter here, to avoid having to acknowledge how unreasonable you are being and why.

Your daughter has done nothing wrong at all. She doesn’t want to look after your mother on holiday. Setting aside the horrific abuse you endured at the hands of your mum, your daughter is still not wrong for not wanting to share caring duties for someone with Alzheimer’s on her family holiday.

It reads like the only reason you want to take your mum on holiday is to gain her approval. You’ve never had it (not truly) and you’re not going to get it now OP. I’m sorry.

I agree with PP’s who suggest counselling.

CharlieParley · 03/02/2021 17:01

YANBU to feel hurt by your daughter's comments
YANBU to care for your mother despite your history

But

I was in your daughter's position. My mum cared for her mum and I couldn't wrap my head around it. She certainly didn't deserve that care. When much later, years after my gran had died, I asked my mum why she did what she did (it involved tremendous effort), she said she didn't do it for her mum. She didn't do it for approval, love or gratitude. But because she believes that end-of-life care is as much of a human right as everything else. Not the most important or vital, but important enough. She believes that everyone deserves to live out their live cared for and with dignity. And she couldn't have denied her mother care without violating her principles.

I didn't get it then, but I do now. If my mother had asked for help (I had small children at the time), I might not have been as blunt as your daughter, but I would have found a way to beg off.

Definitely would not have wanted to go on holiday with my gran. I think differently now, as I'm getting older and thinking about this issue, but back then? I'd have had zero patience or understanding for the notion.

Definitely think the other posters might be right that your daughter may also wish to protect you. There is a lot of hurt there and if my gran had done what yours did, I might have rejected the notion of helping care for her for much the same reason.

I would add though that at no point did my DM neglect her own needs while she was caring for her mother. She got every available assistance to make sure of that and maybe that's your daughter worries that you don't?

pumpkinbump · 03/02/2021 17:06

It must be a sense or duty, guilt for not doing what you think you should. Minimising her behaviour back then, making excuses for her behaviour. I can tell you know, if my daughter went through what you went through, I wouldn't be seeking therapy for myself.

Bluntness100 · 03/02/2021 17:10

YANBU to feel hurt by your daughter's comments

I don’t agree, the daughter works and has two kids. She’s now been asked to give up her holidays to go on one snd care for her gran. And then told although the holiday isn’t going ahead, she is expected to put in more effort and start providing care to her gran. On top of working and caring For two kids. And the ignoring the fact she stepped up and did it for her grandfather.

If anyone has a right to be hurt it’s the daughter. This should never have been requested of her.

Anothermother3 · 03/02/2021 17:22

Your update explains a lot. I hope you’ve had some sort of proper support with all that complex trauma OP. Well done for breaking that cycle. I don’t think you should expect anyone to help care for your mother and I don’t think you should do too much more either. She sounds truly awful and self serving. Do your children know that you had a very abusive childhood?

Marinaloves · 03/02/2021 18:04

If your daughter knows even a 10th of what you’ve just told us I’m not fucking surprised she doesn’t want anything to do with your mum.
I think she was just being clear, and perhaps pointing out to you that the only reason you obviously do it, is because you’re her daughter. Not because she’s a lovely person you would love to help.
And I wouldn’t have wanted her on holiday either, I think your daughter has done you a massive favour.
Sometimes the cold hard truth is what people need.

Piffle11 · 03/02/2021 18:12

Oh God up, your update is shocking. I totally see where your DD is coming from… She probably has massively strong feelings of resentment against your DM, and rightly so. She may even be angry with you for caring for someone who allowed you to be so horrifically abused. You are a saint for taking care of this woman: I do hope you realise that you will never get the validation or gratitude that you deserve. Please, please don’t let this ruin your relationship with your children… Please start putting yourself first. Your DD has enough on her plate with her own family, and she obviously wants to spend time with you. After what you said about your DM, I wouldn’t blame any of your DC if they never spoke to your DM again.

hammeringinmyhead · 03/02/2021 18:15

@Piffle11

All of this! I'm flabbergasted that you didn't think the information in your update was relevant enough to go in your first post. If it were my mum I'd tell her she owes her mum nothing.

Vivi0 · 03/02/2021 18:19

I am just confused as DD’s paternal grandfather had dementia and she was v hands on whenever they were together right up until the harrowing end

Also, given your update, I don’t understand how you could possibly be confused by your DD choosing to care for her paternal grandfather (who I’m assuming was not abusice) and choosing not to care for your mum.

You sound deep in the FOG OP.

Vivi0 · 03/02/2021 18:19

*abusive

Pancakeorcrepe · 03/02/2021 18:20

YABU and you are continuing the toxic mother/daughter cycle with your own daughter. Stop it. Stop perpetuating all this crap and your own unsolved issues onto the next generation.

WeebleGirl · 03/02/2021 18:30

Save the family holiday for when she has passed? Maybe do a day trip out instead? Nice garden, afternoon tea? When we're allowed of course.

Given your own relationship with your mum, perhaps the instinct for your children to step in is lessened?

As you already know, caring for someone with dementia is hard. Traumatic for some. After caring for my father with CJD I was grateful that my grandfather was in a home when his Alzheimer's got worse. I could take him out for day trips. But a holiday away with him wouldn't have felt like one. Add children to the mix and that's something else.

Please look after yourself and know that the stress you feel about people not stepping up in the way you might expect is natural and it will pass. Not everyone can do it. Frustrating as that is.

Big hugs.

WeebleGirl · 03/02/2021 18:38

I've only just read your last post. I'm sorry you had such a shit childhood. This must be so hard for everyone.

Original poster

whatsthepointinwasps · 04/02/2021 01:56

Yes I agree, I can see now that, all things considered I was unreasonable to expect my children to care for DM on holiday.
I agree also that my DD did do me a favour, as DM is quite draining so I need a break.
I actually need to, and plan to, step back, far back and start making more time for my own family.
Too much water passed under the old rotten bridge, it’s time to find a new way forward.
Definitely!

OP posts:

cbt944 · 04/02/2021 02:17

Oh, OP. This is heartbreaking to read. I am so sorry.

It was unreasonable of you to expect yourself to care for this terrible woman.

Duty and guilt, and obligation, are strong drivers. And when one is a decent human being, one tries to do their best by their aging parents. But I really hope you can have a better life, and all future holidays, at a greater distance from her, and that you care much more for yourself and the people who are good in your life.

Coolhand2 · 04/02/2021 02:33

I agree with pumpkinbump, your daughter's attitude is bad. That's her grandmother, whether you and your mother have a bad relationship doesn't mean, hers should be sour too with her grandmother. I helped to care for my grandmother when she was ill too and visited my mom, I can't imagine telling my mother that it's her sole duty to care for her mother, she would be shocked. Family is family and people help out.

MRSGGG · 04/02/2021 02:36

I am a DD and I have 2 brothers. My grandparents are declining. My mum is making plans to try to annex one GP when the other one of them is gone. If she choses this caring responsibility will I help out random days? Yes of course. Would I want it to eat into a holiday? Absolutely no way. I'd go away with my DM anyday of the week but unless the "holiday" was some sort of freebie (not out of meager holiday entitlement) I dont think I could bring myself to do it. Would I care for my own parents if they needed me to later down the line? Absolutely and without question but would my brother's? Absolutely not. Would I look after my in-laws the same?.. absolutely not....everyone makes their own choices...maybe she was blunt but it's your choice to do what you are doing, not hers.

wirldsgonemad · 04/02/2021 03:47

As decent human beings, the others should help out.

HashtagAnonyMouse · 04/02/2021 03:56

How old are you DDs children? I ask this because if they are very young, she will already be pre-occupied

HashtagAnonyMouse · 04/02/2021 04:00

I'm sorry I didn't see your most recent post. I am so sorry all that happened to you.

cbt944 · 04/02/2021 04:25

@wirldsgonemad

As decent human beings, the others should help out.

More shoulds is the last thing needed here.

Meruem · 04/02/2021 07:30

Having read your update I do understand. In my post I said I wouldn’t care for my mother but my DSis would. And that’s for exactly the same reasons as you. DSis still wants her love and care, and I’ve given up on it! It’s never going to happen. Our mum is never going to be the mum we wanted/deserved and nor is yours. I’m really glad you’re going to take a step back and look after yourself. Self love is the way to go here and it will bring you peace. I’m happier and more content than my DSis because I’m not still trying to have something that is impossible. (I have tried to gently steer my DSis in that direction too).

Re your own children. Please don’t worry that they are harbouring underlying resentments or bad feelings. Sounds like you have done an amazing job bringing them up and it’s a totally different scenario. My DC and nieces are all adults and they’ve had totally different upbringings than DSis and I had. I don’t want my dc to care for me in old age. But I do know that anything they did do, would be done out of love, not duty. I am confident in that and I think you should be too.

HikeForward · 04/02/2021 09:25

Well you took on the role as her career, rather than find her a place in a care home or organise professional carers. I think it’s VU to expect your daughter and sons to ‘help out’ so you can bring your mother on holiday. She wasn’t included in the original plan so why ask to bring her and insist the caring responsibility is shared, just so you can have a break?

There’s always respite care for times like this.

Cantreasonwithunreasonable · 04/02/2021 09:35

You are being very unreasonable.
Try to put yourself in your daughter's place. Can you remember how hard it was having children and working full time?
Add in a pandemic, home schooling etc.
Then consider you dangled a much wanted holiday in front of her, but only if she'll care for someone with dementia, along with her kids, whilst on it?
She'll crack under all that. You don't have kids to care for 24:7 anymore, you have your DM instead.
Yes, it's hard.

Reverse it - she comes to you and says she's planning a holiday for all of you, but only if you'll agree to care for her kids whilst you're away AS WELL AS the DM you already have, as she needs a break. You'd say No, right? Too difficult? You need a holiday too?
Well done to her for her honesty, unlike the two fibbing sons of yours.

Helloandhelloagain · 04/02/2021 09:59

I think you should go on holiday by yourself! Yes you are her daughter but Jesus wept that does not automatically make you a carer. Two separate things ( carers is a job and frankly do not get paid enough) this is very pets too me and believe you me if you do not lean on someone and get some form of help your mental health will suffer! People that get to just bloody say ‘ oh well you’re the carer it falls to you’ can go fuck them selves in my honest opinion. It’s so physically, mentally exhausting for anyone and in the midst of it all your actually experiencing anticipatory grief because she’s still here, then what is to follow and it’s your mum !! You don’t have time to grieve because at the minute it’s a focus. It’s no less painful after . Sorry to be so Ranty but it makes me so mad!! I speak from experience. I helped care for my mum for 5 years and she died in December after the heart breaking decision of her moving away with my dad. I said bye and 3 months later she died. Do what you can for your mum but honestly please tell the help and genuinely if that was my daughter as she’s older I’d probably call her a cow and let her feel it. People do not realise the crappy things they say to people and the effect and anger it leaves. But they get to walk away because your the carer . It makes them feel better because they aren’t willing to do it

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