Confused about my feelings

[whatsthepointinwasps]

So, this is about family, It might be a bit long and complicated. It would be great if you manage to stick with it and get through to the end.
I have three grown up children:
DD (married, working, 2 children, not living close by)
DS1 (in longterm relationship, working, expecting first child)
DS2 (single, not working, MH difficulties)
Me (single, work full time, oversee care for DM with Alzheimer’s)
I recently had a discussion with my daughter about going on holiday as an extended group. When I mentioned that it would be nice if DM could come but that would only be feasible if everyone helped looked after her, not just leave all the caring to me my DD said ‘You are her daughter and as such her carer, it’s not anyone’s fault, it’s just the way it is. It’ll probably be the same for me with you and dad’.
I was taken aback by this and, truth be told, hurt.

So in the end I decided not to including my DM in the holiday plans, it’s not till next year anyway and she most likely will have declined too far.
We went abroad a couple of years ago, with DM, who was already struggling and I was left to manage it, to the point where I felt myself and DM were quite excluded.
I was hurt then by my DD’s and DS’s attitude, I don’t want to have the same experience again, especially as DM is now much worse, so that was also a reason not to include her.
Selfishly I want a holiday to be just that. Then again that is exactly what everyone else wants too. Perhaps I am being unfair to expect others to give a hand looking after mum, if it’s not a role I enjoy or a job I relish so why would I expect others to want to share it???
I am just confused as DD’s paternal grandfather had dementia and she was v hands on whenever they were together right up until the harrowing end.

So holiday is now booked but the conversation about ‘caring responsibilities’ really unsettled me.
I don’t expect any of my children to step in and take over, not at all. However I would like them to make more of an effort. After that conversation with DD I said that to ALL of them.
I also said I would not expect them to have to care for me when I need it, I have a plan for that already in place.
My two sons agreed they should do more in future but it’s difficult atm for a variety of reasons notwithstanding f**king COVID.
My daughter has not said a word.

I have, through out my entire life had a turbulent relationship with my own mother. I had a horrible childhood and adulthood didn’t really improve things. I care for her now as it’s the right thing to do but truthfully I feel pretty ambivalent towards her. It’s a terrible admission I know.

I don’t want that sort of relationship with my DD. Tension within the family really really bothers me but I find it difficult to have frank conversations with DD. I guess my biggest fear is that she feels the same lack of love towards me.
What to do?

Also op to add, she’s also working with two kids, which makes your request even more unreasonable

As said, this is your choice, so you need to take full responsibility. Not try to make it theirs too. If you no longer wish this responsibility that’s fine, find alternate care provisions.

Another one agreed with your daughter I'm afraid. I work full time and am normally a pushover but I'm incredibly protective of my family holiday. Our lives are so busy, I feel it's really important to reset things and just spend fun times with my kids. I absolutely wouldn't want a situation where my ill grandmother who I wasn't close to came along as well. It would totally spoil the dynamic for me. Please let this one go. It doesn't mean anything about your own relationship with your daughter.

I think if anything your children have a right to be upset that you put this request onto them and they feel they need to do it. That’s why your sons agreed. Your daughter has a right to be upset you’ve put this expectation on her

You’ve agreed to care for your mother. You do not have the right to extend this to your children and get them to do it too.

Wow there are a lot of thought provoking questions there, thank you for that.
I will do my best to answer them before I need to get to work (I am an embarrassingly slow typist 😟)
So yes I agreed in hindsight it was wrong to expect others to care for DM when I myself find it a struggle. That’s why I decided not to include her in the end, I didn’t want it for me or for others or to feel resentment towards them if they didn’t help.

My daughter thought I would need a break, which is very true, I guess I just let my guilt cloud my vision.

To those that ask why have I taken this caring role on well there are two answers: A - there is no one else to do it, my only other sibling is dead and there is no partner for my DM.
B- and this is the crux of it, I care for her out of duty and, more importantly, to somehow gain her approval.
I have never really had that from her my whole life, well only when I was doing exactly as she wanted and fitting in with her view of what a good daughter was.
In terms of pleasing her it was her way or the high way. My childhood was ruled by fear and intimidation, she tried to smother me when I was two and put me in care twice.
She married a paedophile who raped and molested me. He never had to threaten me ‘not to tell’ because he knew I wouldn’t say a word as in my DM’s eyes if something was wrong it was my fault and I deserved what I got.
When I told her yers later she got counselling for her but not for me and only brought it up when she wanted me to speak up in court to say it was the reason she left the man. It wasn’t, she didn’t know at that time but she just wanted a quick divorce!

As I grew to adulthood I was still desperate for her to be proud of me and jumped through various hoops to make that happen. It never really did. So fast forward to now and I guess this was my last ditch attempt. What A Waste.... just as I am typing this I am realising it.

Yes you could say committing to care for me is a show of love, but, what if, like me my daughter is only doing it out of duty?

I had a horrible childhood so decided to try much much harder for my own children. I believe I did a good enough job. The best I could anyway. I made mistakes, to which I have said sorry for and mostly my children had a happy time of it, apart from when the marriage to their father broke down. They have always spoken generally positively about their childhood and said I was ‘a great mum’.
My daughter is an excellent mother and my grandsons are fantastic, I am proud that I broke the cycle of abuse, it ended with me and they’ve all had something better.
I guess my biggest concern is, like me she appears to be doing well on the surface, but underneath harbours similar resentments about me. As truth be told I might be a more emotionally balanced person if some of the stuff in the past hadn’t happened, that sort of stuff makes relationships confusing for me.

I definitely don’t expect more from her than I do my sons, no at all! For some reason though, I find it difficult to speak as openly to her as I do her brothers.

Ok now after all that, it’s off to work so won’t be able to reply for a long time.
Thanks for listening and making me think x

Jesus OP after reading your update I absolutely see why your DD would have no interest in looking after your mother. The only question is why are YOU looking after her??? Put her in a home she deserves nothing more than that

Oh just to add my DM does have a care package, which I oversee. I didn’t expect anyone to take responsibility like that but a bit of a help would have been appreciated.
I intend to take a step back now as mum really needs more care than she is receiving and the more I plug the gaps the longer it will take to get that.
I think I need to concentrate on me and my relationships with my children now, it will be better for my mental health which will be benefit everyone all round

God op, I’m sorry that’s horrific. Do your children know what their gran put you through?

There is someone else to do it. There is always someone else to do it. You just need ro refuse, she will be put into care. You don’t need her approval

I think maybe you need to get some counselling. Trying to take her on holiday and get your kids to care for her is just going too too far. Even in a good relationship most people wouldn’t even consider this.

💐

Oh OP. I'm so sorry you had the childhood you did. I'm sorry you feel like you still have to gain your mother's approval. She doesn't deserve you, and you shouldnt feel obligated to care for her, she did not care for you as she should have.

I think maybe you feel your daughter has resentment because of the way you feel about your mum, but I really don't think that she does. It sounds like you've been a lovely mum. Have you ever had counselling for what you went through? It's never too late to try to heal yourself from terrible past experiences

OP there is an awful lot in your post and I'm sorry for the terrible childhood you've suffered.I don't know how much your children know about the abuse but if they know only a small amount then I would think they want nothing to do with their grandmother at all.

In reality the only way to address the fear that you've outlined i.e. what if DD only says she would care for me out of duty is to talk to her about it. If you feel able to. I think most people have some sort of sense of "duty" to family, but people can also want to care for and support their parents out of love too.

Go on holiday with your lovely children and grandchildren. And enjoy it. Make new memories .

@TeeBee

I think you're being unreasonable. She has her own children to take care of, without adding additional responsibility onto her during her own holiday. If that was put on my plate on a holiday I was paying for, I'd choose not to go. It sounds as though it's your own decision to want to take your mother so I think that's your choice and responsibility. I think it's unfair to pass that onto your children. I don't think it's the best idea to take someone with dementia into a potentially overwhelming situation. Why exactly were you considering taking her? Is it just so you can be dutiful to her as a daughter? And is that what you're expecting from your children?

Agree with this, our family brought an elderly family member (no dementia but some physical/continence issues) overseas for a wedding, it meant the world for them to be there. It was really hard on my mum and aunt who had to share care for her, and no my mum did not expect me to take a turn when we had already flown there with 3 small children and were trying to fight them into wedding clothes, getting them to sleep in hot/unfamiliar place and not fall in the pool.

Maybe selfishly your dd had thought it would be a holiday for her (more people to share the childcare, maybe give her some time off), instead you were suggesting more work for her on top of the usual, not really a holiday for any of you. Although it does sound like she communicated this in a rather blunt way.

Sorry OP just read update. It sounds like you have done an amazing job with your children and have given them a happy, normal childhood which means they thankfully can’t identify with the fear/obligation/guilt which your mum has kept over you all these years. I hope you can accept care for her that is safe and kind for her but doesn’t require you to martyr yourself and you can concentrate on the things you enjoy and the people you love.

OP you sound amazing and your mother was a horror.

Why are you so involved with someone who has never given a whit about you?

Step back.
Think about yourself for once.

Leaver her to her paid carers.

Could this be why your daughter does not wish to be involved.

I certainly wouldn't want to be playing granddaughter/happy families.

Time for you to spend your time and health on the things that make you happy.

Op, by refusing to help you with your horrible Mother, you DD IS caring for you. She is refusing to support you in facilitating someone who she probably hates.

She wants you and her children to have a lovely holiday. The fact she wants to holiday with you and is confident enough to state that she won't be joining in pretending your Mother is just a nice benign old lady means you have done an awesome job.

Last thing - my DM was awful, is old now and now only do I not love her, I am keen to get to the bit where she pops her clogs. People who have been brought up by loving mothers are often horrified but I refuse to be shut down.

I also think take a step back

By wanting to take your mother on holiday when it was really not appropriate for her to be there and then asking your kids to care for her, is prioritising your mother over them and yourself.

That’s why I think you need to go for counselling. Even if your mother had been the best mother to habe ever existed, the request would have been unreasonable, she is not in a condition to go, and it would not have been fair on the others. But she wasn’t the best mother ever.

So when you’re so far down the rabbit hole that you prioritise her over everything and everyone else, then something is deeply wrong.

Your daughter did the right thing, your sons did not, they simoly agreed for your sake and that was wrong of them, they should also have spoken up.

It’s time now to get some help for yourself to untangle this, and also some proper care for your mother. You do not have to sacrifice your self like this, and nor do your children.

My mother physically and emotionally ran herself into the ground caring for my grandmother, who was awful to her for her whole childhood and often as an adult. She was not interested in me or my brother when we were children. I supported my mum, and did help with the care, but I also had the conversation with her that just because she was now elderly didn't mean DM was obligated to Grandmother and it didn't change the behaviours of the past. It was emotionally very complicated. I was able to do it because I convinced myself I was doing it for my mum not for my grandmother.

@KatyClaire

It’s a tricky one. On the one hand I can absolutely see why your daughter wasn’t keen on a plan which involved all of you being carers to an elderly woman with Alzheimer’s while on holiday. It’s likely you would all have had a rotten time. That said, I think your daughter was a little cold and unsupportive in the way she expressed herself. But I don’t think it indicates lack of love - she’s showing that she intends to care for you one day if necessary, which I would view as an act of love.

This

Your mother is a disgrace. I know you are desperately seeking her love, but she can't give it - she never could, before she had dementia or now. If your children know how she treated you, they must be bewildered by the way you are caring for her now.

Focus on your relationship with your children. Of course they didn't want a holiday with her - why would they? Anyone with dementia needs familiar surroundings rather than a holiday, anyway, and a carer needs a break away from those responsibilities.

Frankly, I would stop feeling responsible for your mum. She clearly needs more care and you need to think about yourself for once.

I think she worded it badly & prob meant t's not much of a holiday if everyone is worrying about and looking after your Mum . How poorly is she is the question too. Changes of routine and environment can add to confusion & mood swings in dementia . They did with my Grandad, he'd switch from placid to very , very agitated and it was distressing for everyone.

I think your daughter was pretty blunt about it, but I do see where she’s coming from. You are providing care for your mother, out of a sense of duty, because there is no-one else to do it, and also, I suspect, because you are a decent human-being. It’s likely that you are modelling what your daughter would expect to do for you, if you needed support in old age.

I work in health and social care and am involved in organising care for older people everyday. It’s rare to see an (adult) grandchild as the main support/cater for their grandparent. This tends to happen if the son/daughter is unable to/not present.

My mum’s mum is in her 90s and her 3 daughters are her main support despite having 11 grandchildren, 4 of whom live close by. My mum expects me to visit and maintain a good relationship with my grandma but she would not expect me to take any of the ‘burden’ of care. I think the difference for you is there is only you so you have to shoulder all the responsibility.

My mum had alzheimers and I got "persuaded" to have her at my house for a big family Christmas. It was the first time my daughter had brought her new partner (now her husband) to meet us.

It was horrific. Lots of rows and tears. I can't believe that my lovely son-in-law didn't run a mile, or that my children don't hate me for putting them through that.

Please don't do this to your kids.

Goodness OP I have to say YABU. YABU to care for this women who subjected you to such horrors and yet still does not give you her approval despite being her carer, I agree you should step back and leave her carers to it. You owe her nothing. You have turned your life into a positive, you have done an amazing job ending the cycle of abuse and being an amazing Mum. Honestly think about the the positives in your life now and in the past 10 years, I bet your mother is not on the positive list but is one of the negatives. She’s still draining you.
My Mum says she had an awful childhood, she hasn’t told me details but she’s said her parents were awful when she was a child and she will not be devoting years to caring for them when they have never done it for her.
YABU to want this woman who put you through such horrors on holiday, why?? It wouldn’t be a holiday for anyone if she was there as no one would get a break.
Do your children know some of your childhood details? If so I doubt they want much to do with her. Has your Mum been nice to them or does she treat them as she treated you?

I agree your daughters comments about caring for you were blunt but it sounds like you’ll all have a much more enjoyable time without your Mum there.

The thing is thr last holiday was a couple of years ago and that was hard due to the caring. So to actually say “it would be nice for mum to come” but you all have to share the care, is just really concerning. It would be nice for no one, not even your mum.

That changes a holiday where you spend time with your children and grandchildren into simply a relay of relentless caring for an elderly woman with dementia, and not a very nice elderly woman either.

It becomes her holiday, all about her and everyone else is there just to take their turn to care for her. It’s a very different animal. It simply highlights how she is the priority and not the children or grandchildren.

It would have then been more accurate to say I’d like to take mum on holiday could you come too just to help me care for her, because it will be too hard to do it alone.

Wanting to spend time as an extende family is lovely but if that’s the case it should be about them, not their grandmother.

Oh I'm very sorry reading your update. I won't speculate or pass judgement. I'm lost for words. All I will say is focus oj your children whilst safe in the knowledge that your mother is receiving the best care. You deserve it and your children deserve it.

At first I wondered if maybe it was just too much for your dd, especially as she has 2 children to care for, I presume the care of them isn't shared on holiday? However after reading your update I would think it was more to do with the type of person your mother is. You must be a strong person to get through that experience but perhaps your daughter doesn't want to care for such a person. It sounds like your holiday would be much better without your mother there.

Op why don’t you message your kids and say you’ve thought about it and are going to sort out proper care for your mother and you’re sorry for suggesting they should step in and make more effort in future and for putting that on them, it would not have been the right thing to do and you’re not sure what you were thinking even asking.

Put them first and let them off the hook here.