Labour need a new leader

[Tellmetruth4]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/02/labour-urged-to-focus-on-flag-and-patriotism-to-win-voters-trust-leak-reveals

I would describe myself as a Blairite Labour voter who couldn’t stand Corbyn and preferred the Tories under Cameron.

I backed Starmer for the Labour leadership but am incredibly disappointed. He seems to not have any backbone or ideas of his own and seems to just flounder about waiting to do what focus groups tell him to do. He has zero political instinct.

The Tories have left a goal so open it resembles a cave and what does Starmer do? On the suggestion of his focus group he decides what’s most important is to pander to what he believes are the concerns of the ‘red wall’ voters so the plan will be to pose in front of the flag and talk about veterans and limiting immigration.

The type of voters who in this current climate, believe patriotism is still our priority as a country right now will vote Tory or UKIP, not for a party pretending to be them. The ‘red wall’ have got Brexit, it’s time for the next phase which should be focused on rebuilding the country not politicians cynically crying in suits next to the Cenotaph trying to look like super patriots.

I’m certain that what the majority of voters will want to see is a strong post Covid/Brexit plan. How do we create jobs? What type of jobs will work for the future economy? How do we rebuild the high street? What businesses should we encourage or back? What is a successful model for the NHS going forward? How do we level economic inequalities across all areas across geographic and ethnic lines as inequality was shown to have left us very vulnerable as a county to Covid Healthwise and financially? How do we make our future trading relationships work for benefit of the majority of the country regionally (and no I don’t mean destroying the South to big up the North) we could have regional centres of excellence across industries for example.

We are at rock bottom as a country, there is an opportunity to remodel ourselves post Brexit and post Covid. Focusing on creating plans that push us out of the gate strongly where the majority have an opportunity in our new future will strengthen us as a country. It has the opportunity to unite us and that will automatically increase things like patriotism.

Employing focus groups to advise on moving from one set of identity politics to another is not what Labour should be focusing on.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but as remain voting blue Labourite, I’d be tempted to vote Tory at the next election if they got a new centerist leader over Starmer who is so fake and so willing to quickly change his principles depending on what focus groups say that he can’t be trusted.

Strong plans for growth are what are needed not pandering to what a focus group told them the ‘red wall’ cared about last year. A strong economy drives everything else not blue passports. He’s so transparently cynical.

It might not be an accident that I’m talking about McDonnell and actual policies, while those justifying the middle class approach are determined to keep the focus on Blair/ Corbyn and ‘images’ either. We need substance, not image. Just a thought.

Perhaps something for the drug addicts, trade and bankers, and certainly plenty to promote the interests of rich landlords. The New Labour years were when Britain stopped listening to the working classes

That simply isn’t true. The investment in the NHS made an incredible difference. Surestart transformed life for thousands of families. Up until the Iraq war that Labour government was the best since Attlee’s, which was why it was re-elected twice and had 13 years in power.

I think he's doing what he needs to. I don't know anyone who is really thinking about their next vote right now beyond floating voters wishing they hadn't voted for Boris (I dearly wish Corbyn hadn't started on about inheritance tax, second homes tax etc. right before the election).

We have no idea really what will be required of the next lot and I strongly believe it won't be Boris standing next time anyway.

To refer to Sir Keir Starmer as leading a 'non-opposition' as he has been so poor. Ian Blackford has been more of an opposition leader in the House of Commons.

As a Scot who is right leaning I am very impressed with Keir Starmer. Blackford is a petty minded wee blusterer. I may consider voting Labour next election if Keir manages to get a serious back bench team around him. Starting with people who have a good grasp of economics. It's the economy, stupid as Clinton famously said.

Thinking about Corbyn and co being in charge of the vaccine rollout gives me the chills.

The weird thing about Surestart is that I didn’t use it as I could not afford children in my 20s. I am speaking of my own experience and what they did for me as a working person with no family support. What I saw was that I was working all the hours I could get to pay taxes that went to support either people on benefits or the older people with their own homes, while I was left struggling to pay the rent of the newly empowered landlords. I remember handing out concessions and signals to benefits to people on 50k plus.

Perhaps I would feel differently if such things were still around to help me, but they weren’t. Public services were already being reduced by the end of New Labour: my own services were reduced and we had to work harder with the line of progression and therefore wage increases removed. Under New Labour. The NHS staffing levels were already being reduced in the end of the New Labour years, so I went through pregnancy in distinctly worse conditions than previous generations did. Retraining options were cut back and fees introduced.

They’ve got a lot of work to do to convince people actually working that they can offer them anything but having to support everyone else while taking your own chances away.

I'll never vote for Labour under Starmer after how appallingly Corbyn was treated.

He’s ok. But a few suggestions haven’t gone down well here.

I don’t know if he’s able to beat Johnson as much as people talk about loathing the latter on here.

He may improve but it’s a big hill to climb. Esp if vaccine hopefully gets us out if this mess.

Floating voter and want a strong opposition.

You sound like natural conservative voter to be honest.

@Rosehip10

You sound like natural conservative voter to be honest.

Nothing wrong with that, especially the one nation centrist kind.

I like Keir Starmer a lot but I'm not touching Labour with a bargepole until they put right the dangerous anti-Women route they have gone down.

That’s hardly fair since Corbyn didn’t get elected.

That's the point! He failed to get elected so achieved nothing!

@inquietant

I genuinely believe people want to see a plan forming.

You may believe this but the party will be doing polling and if most people agreed with you, they'd be doing it.

I would like to see Starmer call Johnson a lying twat but I'm not sure it would help with the next election

He did skirt round Parliament's rules by saying 'Don't let the truth get in the way of a pre-prepared gag' at PMQs today. So as close as he's allowed to get!

OP, the type of thing you're after is what goes in a GE manifesto. Labour won't be in power for a few years yet (if they can win). It's not for them to provide policy to the Tories. They will provide their plans when there's a GE on the way.

I agree - and I say this a a Tory supporter!

in 3 years then Johnson will win by a landslide as bj can out talk him.

Johnson can barely string a sentence together half the time - unless shouting 'captain hindsight' at regular intervals counts.

@PotDaffodil

I liked Corbyn and McDonnell. McDonnell more, to be honest. I have no time or patience for the middle class usurpation of what is supposed to be a movement of and for the working classes, who have never needed it more. I won’t be voting for another New Labour, never mind an even worse option, which is all it looks like Keir Starmer can provide.

I agree with you about a middle class usurpation of the party but that was more The Corbyn era and the clear remnants of it that Starmer is probably struggling to control. It pretty much alienated/ alienates a lot of traditional Labour voters.

@Rosehip10

You sound like natural conservative voter to be honest.

If that’s aimed at me, perhaps that’s the origin of the red wall phenomenon then and why people are turning away from the politically correct (aka up its own rear) left. I thought perhaps Labour was aiming to win some of us back?

Labour will struggle to ever form a Government again - the loss of the 40 to 55 former safe Labour seats in Scotland has never been compensated for in England. These seats are not coming back.

For all Boris bleats on about our precious union, behind closed doors the Tories would probably love Scottish independence. You instantly take 50 or so anti tory/more centre left seats of any colour our of parliament.

Labour have always been an uneasy coalition of working class and middle class "socialists", what appeals to more socially conservative working class voters turns off city based middle class types. Now lots of people in these former Labour seats vote for Tories or Farage type parties or simply don't vote.

Chasing red wall voters by "patriotism" is doomed to fail - the sort of people who may be swayed by this prob now vote Tory or Farage...

I can't see Labour getting back into power any time soon, the party is broken. Its abandoned class analysis in favour of identity politics.

I held out some hope that Starmer could put them back on track, but he directed Labour MP's to abstain from voting against the Spycops bill. He is not what expected from someone who used to be a human rights lawyer.

This stuff really gets on my nerves. Starmer is in a really difficult position being in Opposition at this time as he needs to be seen to be supportive. But he's stabilised Labour & got rid of the worse of Corbynism really quickly. We need rid of the Tories before anything else..

Blair is by far the most successful recent Labour leader, in terms of appealing to a wide range of the populace but is a sort of bogeyman now for many in the party ( and not just because of the Iraq war).
It seems like a party that is deeply uncomfortable with its identity. Some give off an impression of disliking fellow members and also huge sections of the voting population.
Starmer is genuinely working class. He is accomplished and has done well due to his genuine talents so gains respect on that score. I suspect that behind the scenes he is dealing with a very divided party.

I personally think Labour have bigger problems than their leader.

Things have changed so much since they were last in power and their vote is totally split between their traditional voters and new voters, who are the polar opposites of each other - the working class Joe vs the woke liberals.

I think until they pick a lane and 100% go after that vote they will struggle to gain any traction.

Labour will struggle to gain centrist ground again

They could but get tangled up in identity stuff

@heatherpot

in 3 years then Johnson will win by a landslide as bj can out talk him.

Johnson can barely string a sentence together half the time - unless shouting 'captain hindsight' at regular intervals counts.

He's a very good waffler orator

Keir Starmer is in a difficult position, as every Labour leader is, because Tory governments have dominated since the 19th Century (I think 2/3 to 1/3). Tories are good at reinventing themselves and if a leader is not cutting it they ruthlessly dispose of them. Blair was successful because he played to the middle classes (on the basis working class supporters would vote for him whatever). Starmer’s big question is will the Red Wall voters return now brexit is done? If yes, he can move to the centre, focus on the middle class swing voters (who don’t mind paying a bit more, but don’t want to be heavily taxed) and possibly win.