Labour need a new leader

[Tellmetruth4]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/02/labour-urged-to-focus-on-flag-and-patriotism-to-win-voters-trust-leak-reveals

I would describe myself as a Blairite Labour voter who couldn’t stand Corbyn and preferred the Tories under Cameron.

I backed Starmer for the Labour leadership but am incredibly disappointed. He seems to not have any backbone or ideas of his own and seems to just flounder about waiting to do what focus groups tell him to do. He has zero political instinct.

The Tories have left a goal so open it resembles a cave and what does Starmer do? On the suggestion of his focus group he decides what’s most important is to pander to what he believes are the concerns of the ‘red wall’ voters so the plan will be to pose in front of the flag and talk about veterans and limiting immigration.

The type of voters who in this current climate, believe patriotism is still our priority as a country right now will vote Tory or UKIP, not for a party pretending to be them. The ‘red wall’ have got Brexit, it’s time for the next phase which should be focused on rebuilding the country not politicians cynically crying in suits next to the Cenotaph trying to look like super patriots.

I’m certain that what the majority of voters will want to see is a strong post Covid/Brexit plan. How do we create jobs? What type of jobs will work for the future economy? How do we rebuild the high street? What businesses should we encourage or back? What is a successful model for the NHS going forward? How do we level economic inequalities across all areas across geographic and ethnic lines as inequality was shown to have left us very vulnerable as a county to Covid Healthwise and financially? How do we make our future trading relationships work for benefit of the majority of the country regionally (and no I don’t mean destroying the South to big up the North) we could have regional centres of excellence across industries for example.

We are at rock bottom as a country, there is an opportunity to remodel ourselves post Brexit and post Covid. Focusing on creating plans that push us out of the gate strongly where the majority have an opportunity in our new future will strengthen us as a country. It has the opportunity to unite us and that will automatically increase things like patriotism.

Employing focus groups to advise on moving from one set of identity politics to another is not what Labour should be focusing on.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but as remain voting blue Labourite, I’d be tempted to vote Tory at the next election if they got a new centerist leader over Starmer who is so fake and so willing to quickly change his principles depending on what focus groups say that he can’t be trusted.

Strong plans for growth are what are needed not pandering to what a focus group told them the ‘red wall’ cared about last year. A strong economy drives everything else not blue passports. He’s so transparently cynical.

The only other person I would have liked as Labour leader would have been Andy Burnham. Keir Starmer has had to pick up & dust down the Labour Party from one of the biggest losses in a general election, yes he has had to change the image of the party because of the antisemitism but he is doing a good job. He is calling the Tories on the mismanagement of the Covid pandemic & rightly so. Don't forget he has only been leader less than a year, there haven't been any elections due to Covid so how can you really know how the electorate really feels about how good a job he is doing?

I'd quite like to reclaim/reframe patriotism tbh. I'm sick of the bastards like Farage and Johnson being seen as 'patriotic' when their politics has weakened our nation and will make British people poorer.

Patriotism or national pride is the feeling of love, devotion, and sense of attachment to a homeland and alliance with other citizens who share the same sentiment.

Can there be an inclusive, progressive patriotism?

I completely agree with you. How the hell can Labour be behind in the polls after the shambles this government are making of everything at the moment.
Starmer seems to be completely out of touch.
I am a lefty but saw the appeal of Blair. Prior to Iraq he did a lot if good and things felt positive, there was a feeling of hope.
I don't think Starmer is being himself at all, he is being desperately neutral and trying to appeal to everyone whilst pleasing none. He needs to stop listening to focus groups and stand for what he believes otherwise we will see another Tory term and this will be catastrophic for the ordinary people in this country.

There definitely can be inclusive patriotism. In the 70s/80s the union flag was hijacked by the far right. When Blair came around and focused on the economy, education and health, the majority started doing better. We had ‘Cool Britainnia’ which was a bit naff but it did the job of moving the flag back into the hands of the mainstream, think Gerri Halliwells flag dress. People of all races and backgrounds were proud to be British.

I remember the Olympics. I was in a pub for one of the big events and the patriotism and support for the British team was loud and vocal to the point it makes me feel almost emotional. It was inclusive. I saw people of all colours faving the flag during that time including members of my family who span white and black (I’m mixed raced).

Patriotism can definitely be inclusive and non nationalistic. We’ve done it before. We have many ties that bind.

Not focusing on core things to improve the lives of people such as the economy and saying nothing whilst waving a flag is bullshit and cynical.

How the hell can Labour be behind in the polls after the shambles this government are making of everything at the moment.

I think this is not a normal polling environment.

Because of covid I mean.

Compared to Boris, Keir Starmer is a brilliant leader. Watch PMQ, every week, he is hounding the Tories & picks them up on everything they do. We will only have a proper idea of how he has improved the Labour Party when we have a general election.

Larry the cat. . Mind you inspite of the grin I'm actually not joking

@inquietant

How the hell can Labour be behind in the polls after the shambles this government are making of everything at the moment.

I think this is not a normal polling environment.

Of course it’s not. He’s damned whatever he does at the moment. Once we’re approaching some kind of normality again and looking at how we rebuild, I’ll criticise him if he doesn’t come up with some big ideas. Now isn’t the time, it’s way too soon.

Labour lost me with Corbyn and Starmer is driving me further away.

Has shown nothing in the way of Leadership whatsoever and presents himself as a clueless, whiny weakling who repeats himself through lack of anything new to say.

On a (unnecessarily) personal level he makes my skin crawl watching him talk.

Cannot stand the man!

liked Corbyn and McDonnell. McDonnell more, to be honest. I have no time or patience for the middle class usurpation of what is supposed to be a movement of and for the working classes,

Corbyn couldn't be more middle class if he tried and Momentum was full of middle-class overgrown students who did nothing for the disadvantaged of this country or the 'working class', whatever that it now, other than ensure that got stuck with at least another 5 years of Tory misrule.

I think he's doing fine. It's too early in the electoral cycle for him to be proposing big new policy ideas. He needs to stick to opposing Johnson until the next general election is on the horizon.

I don't know why people are saying Starmer has nothing to say - several times he has suggested things that the Tories have rubbished then had to U-turn on and adopt a couple of weeks later. At the moment, with the vaccine roll-out going well it's more difficult as that's obviously a good thing no matter what your political views.

I just think it's hard for him to generate positivity and hope in the way Blair did when we are in the midst of a pandemic that's far from over. On days when 15000 deaths are announced he can hardly pop up and say 'when this is over Labour will x,y z and it will be great' as that would just look crass.

And Ian Blackford has a very easy job compared to Starmer. His voters send him to Westminster to give the Tories a drubbing every week - that's all that's expected of him so he can happily deliver that. Starmer has a far more delicate line to tread and has to look like a PM in waiting, which shouting, a la Corbyn and Blackford, doesn't achieve. It doesn't matter for Blackford but it did for Corbyn. I'm not saying that Starmer gets it right every time but he does have a very hard job.

Whereas Blair and Starmer’s credentials are firmly working class?

My politics are the same as yours OP and I agree totally with what you say.
Starmer has been such a disappointment that at the moment I feel politically homeless.

Well no, but do they claim to be? Starmer's roots are certainly closer to it than Corbyn's though. But who cares? It's not about people's roots or what the party was founded for. It's about what gets achieved. Blair did more for working people than Corbyn ever did, that's for sure.

@Buddywoo

My politics are the same as yours OP and I agree totally with what you say. Starmer has been such a disappointment that at the moment I feel politically homeless.

And you had a political home when Corbyn was leader? If that’s the case, prepare yourself for a lifetime of political homelessness because that failed experiment won’t be repeated.

@VinylDetective

You lost me at preferring Cameron. The bastard who presided over ten years ideological austerity and the ill thought through referendum? I can’t take anything you say seriously after that.

Totally agree OP sounds like a Tory but wants " pretend Labour " (ie Tory-lite) policies.

It’s about having an idea of where the party represents and whose interests they stand for. So far I’m not picking up any impression of the vision and fundamental change we need.

It's about what gets achieved. Blair did more for working people than Corbyn ever did, that's for sure.

That’s hardly fair since Corbyn didn’t get elected. McDonnells economic policies were the driving force and I believe would have done far more. Speaking as a working person who was in their 20s and early 30s through New Labour, they did very little for me. Perhaps something for the drug addicts, trade and bankers, and certainly plenty to promote the interests of rich landlords. The New Labour years were when Britain stopped listening to the working classes.

The political scene is so awful now. I think the expenses crisis put people off going into politics.

The type of people who would once have gone into politics can make much better money elsewhere without going through all the vitriol politicians have to face. So we get worse politicians, more vitriol, and so on. That's why both parties seem to be packed with lightweights.

absolutely had enough of Keith. I wish Gordon Brown could come back.

If its Starmer v Johnson in 3 years then Johnson will win by a landslide as bj can out talk him. KS probably brilliant in court but lacks charisma. I dream of Labour having a passionate, youngish, extremely well educated female leader

@VinylDetective

You lost me at preferring Cameron. The bastard who presided over ten years ideological austerity and the ill thought through referendum? I can’t take anything you say seriously after that.

Hear hear and who brought about Brexit and still supports that war criminal Blair. It's the fact that Labour has people like you in its ranks, that many on the left are politically homeless. Rashford is doing the job of the opposition. Starmer has no integrity.

A good politician shouldn’t be trying to appeal to the working class or middle class especially as hardly anybody agrees on the definition of class, just look at the ‘class’ threads on here.

Focus on the core items: economy, education, health. These underpin everything and cut across ‘class’ and every other identity. A rising tide raises all boats.