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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Labour need a new leader

125 replies

Tellmetruth4 · 03/02/2021 07:24

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/02/labour-urged-to-focus-on-flag-and-patriotism-to-win-voters-trust-leak-reveals

I would describe myself as a Blairite Labour voter who couldn’t stand Corbyn and preferred the Tories under Cameron.

I backed Starmer for the Labour leadership but am incredibly disappointed. He seems to not have any backbone or ideas of his own and seems to just flounder about waiting to do what focus groups tell him to do. He has zero political instinct.

The Tories have left a goal so open it resembles a cave and what does Starmer do? On the suggestion of his focus group he decides what’s most important is to pander to what he believes are the concerns of the ‘red wall’ voters so the plan will be to pose in front of the flag and talk about veterans and limiting immigration.

The type of voters who in this current climate, believe patriotism is still our priority as a country right now will vote Tory or UKIP, not for a party pretending to be them. The ‘red wall’ have got Brexit, it’s time for the next phase which should be focused on rebuilding the country not politicians cynically crying in suits next to the Cenotaph trying to look like super patriots.

I’m certain that what the majority of voters will want to see is a strong post Covid/Brexit plan. How do we create jobs? What type of jobs will work for the future economy? How do we rebuild the high street? What businesses should we encourage or back? What is a successful model for the NHS going forward? How do we level economic inequalities across all areas across geographic and ethnic lines as inequality was shown to have left us very vulnerable as a county to Covid Healthwise and financially? How do we make our future trading relationships work for benefit of the majority of the country regionally (and no I don’t mean destroying the South to big up the North) we could have regional centres of excellence across industries for example.

We are at rock bottom as a country, there is an opportunity to remodel ourselves post Brexit and post Covid. Focusing on creating plans that push us out of the gate strongly where the majority have an opportunity in our new future will strengthen us as a country. It has the opportunity to unite us and that will automatically increase things like patriotism.

Employing focus groups to advise on moving from one set of identity politics to another is not what Labour should be focusing on.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but as remain voting blue Labourite, I’d be tempted to vote Tory at the next election if they got a new centerist leader over Starmer who is so fake and so willing to quickly change his principles depending on what focus groups say that he can’t be trusted.

Strong plans for growth are what are needed not pandering to what a focus group told them the ‘red wall’ cared about last year. A strong economy drives everything else not blue passports. He’s so transparently cynical.

OP posts:
Lifeaintalwaysempty · 03/02/2021 08:37

Agree. He’s got to be able to bring people on a journey a s he just isn’t doing that.

Tellmetruth4 · 03/02/2021 08:38

The conflicts between various ‘identities’ are artificial and amplified by those who wish to divide for nefarious purposes. He should not get sucked in to that. Instead he should focus on board church policies and issues which affect us all.

OP posts:
MaryBerrysChutney · 03/02/2021 08:38

Give the man a chance! He has not led the party in a single elction and you want to write him off already?

TitusPullo · 03/02/2021 08:44

I like Starmer, he has brought me back to the Labour Party after Corbyn saw me voting for another party other than Labour for the first time. Starmer has a quiet strength and is very good at PMQs. I think personality politics has taken a hold in the UK and people have come to expect bold personalities in their leaders like Johnson or Corbyn etc but these people tend to be more on the unstable, extreme end. Give me a stable, middle ground leader any day.

AStudyinPink · 03/02/2021 08:45

The conflicts between various ‘identities’ are artificial and amplified by those who wish to divide for nefarious purposes. He should not get sucked in to that. Instead he should focus on board church policies and issues which affect us all.

There is no getting ‘sucked in’ to the issue of gender politics. You either reform the GRA or you don’t. You either allow people to continue being fired for expressing their knowledge of biology, or you support them. This issue affects all women, and that means he has to address it at some point.

Starmer will (however cynically) gain ground by being inscrutable on certain issues for as long as possible.

heatherpot · 03/02/2021 08:47

I was nodding along but then you completely lost me when you said that you preferred Cameron and would vote Tory next time! Bollocks to that - whatever you think of Starmer, and I'm not as keen as I was a few months ago, there's no indication that anyone in the Tory ranks would do any better. Each and every one of them on the front bench during this crisis has been an utter disaster. The only fairly prominent one who has spoken any sense is Jeremey Hunt, but he's a huge part of the reason the NHS is as vulnerable as it is so he can fuck off to be honest. And as for calling out Starmer for trying to 'cynically' win back certain voters, while praising 'Call Me Dave I listen to the Arctic Monkeys while riding my bike and I spoke to a man in Portsmouth and agreed with him Cameron...' well, why is it okay for him to do that shit and then when he gets in bring in swingeing ideological cuts?

There have been lots of times recently when I have thought Starmer could have been harder on the Tories, but I agree with others that he's in a very difficult position. I do think he's mainly got the balance right and he's usually great at PMQs - not that most people see it. I certainly don't think now is the time for him to be setting out ambitious and detailed post-Covid plans as we're not there and he would open himself up to accusations of 'flip-flopping' if he then had to change plans based on the economic sitation at the time of the election. Anyway, he's closed the gap between Labour and the Tories, and when I see articles in the Express sniping at his expenses and then posts like this I think he must be rattling people and maybe is doing something right!

User133847 · 03/02/2021 08:47

Starmer isn't a visionary or a strong leader. He's more of a Kinnock figure.

Back under Kinnock though Labour had a natural successor in John Smith and Blair and Brown waiting in the wings. What do they have now? Like the Tories there's a real scarcity of talent.

HighlightedTrees · 03/02/2021 08:47

I don't think Starmer is currently trying to anything to dissuade the overwhelming voice I keep hearing which is 'Politicians are all the same, none of them would piss on you if you were on fire, they are all there for their own interest/career/ego.'

Starmer would get my support if he started talking about rebuilding trust in politics and forcing political parties to understand that they are paid administrators and public servants not celebrities who need to court/encourage the press.

User133847 · 03/02/2021 08:53

@HighlightedTrees

I don't think Starmer is currently trying to anything to dissuade the overwhelming voice I keep hearing which is 'Politicians are all the same, none of them would piss on you if you were on fire, they are all there for their own interest/career/ego.'

Starmer would get my support if he started talking about rebuilding trust in politics and forcing political parties to understand that they are paid administrators and public servants not celebrities who need to court/encourage the press.

Right now I think Andy Burnham would be a better leader. He'd speak more to the constituencies Labour lost under Corbyn and over Brexit. He'd be a lot more decisive and wouldn't be afraid to hold the government's feet to the fire, while also backing their measures when necessary.
VinylDetective · 03/02/2021 08:53

Absolutely @heatherpot. I completely agree. Had I not been so enraged by the Cameron reference, I’d have said exactly the same thing.

Tellmetruth4 · 03/02/2021 08:56

When I said I preferred the Cameron era Tories I meant that I preferred that incarnation to the current one that’s been infiltrated by UKIP not that I liked Cameron. Should’ve made that clear.

OP posts:
VinylDetective · 03/02/2021 08:58

@Tellmetruth4

When I said I preferred the Cameron era Tories I meant that I preferred that incarnation to the current one that’s been infiltrated by UKIP not that I liked Cameron. Should’ve made that clear.
You liked austerity? OK.
User133847 · 03/02/2021 09:02

@Tellmetruth4

When I said I preferred the Cameron era Tories I meant that I preferred that incarnation to the current one that’s been infiltrated by UKIP not that I liked Cameron. Should’ve made that clear.
I always found the Cameron-era Tories so dishonest. It was the same old Tories with just more PR fluff and backing some socially liberal causes to disguise their nastiness and hugely damaging austerity measures on the most vulnerable.

George Osborne becoming a full time banker this week (not a typo) sums it up.

heatherpot · 03/02/2021 09:35

Exactly! Anything not utterly awful from the Cameron government came from the Lib Dems. They weren't centrists.

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 03/02/2021 09:40

Labour need to get away from identity politics and go back to class based policies. Their policies seem disconnected from the old Labour strongholds they used to represent but just waving the flag and PR stunts attending memorials isn’t going to fix that.
They lost me a they want to dismantle safeguarding for women.

Tellmetruth4 · 03/02/2021 09:44

If Starmer focused on improving the economy, education and health, he could propose to do it in a way which satisfied all of my identities. Sitting on a fence wrapped in a flag doesn’t cut it for me.

OP posts:
inquietant · 03/02/2021 09:45

@Tellmetruth4

And Starmer is no Biden either because whether you agree with them or not Biden has principles and is willing to publicly stand by them. Starmer is someone who may be with you on Monday but you’re not sure and may be against you on Tuesday but you’re not sure.
One of the main criticisms of Biden was he was just a career politician with no principles unlike Sanders...

I get that you don't like Starmer.

But I guess everyone who would like a change of government needs to decide whether they want to squabble amongst themselves or do something useful.

You won't ever get a perfect leader.

peak2021 · 03/02/2021 09:46

I refer to Sir Keir Starmer as leading a 'non-opposition' as he has been so poor. Ian Blackford has been more of an opposition leader in the House of Commons.

The Labour Party will never choose a woman as leader so I'm not sure who to suggest as an alternative, were there a vacancy.

inquietant · 03/02/2021 09:48

@Lifeaintalwaysempty

Agree. He’s got to be able to bring people on a journey a s he just isn’t doing that.
Most people are not in the mind set for a journey right now. People haven't even had time to really process the devastation of covid yet.
TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe · 03/02/2021 09:52

YANBU to dislike Sir Kier as leader. My impression of him is is quite vaporous, there is nothing to him - no ideas, no plans, it's easy to criticize others but opposition should provide an alternative too.

From the perspective of someone now in the US, there is almost zero coverage of him here. Sure, we've got our own issues to worry about, but Corbyn was regularly on the news, so was Cameron when he was in opposition.

inquietant · 03/02/2021 09:53

Ian Blackford has been more of an opposition leader in the House of Commons. But that only plays in Scotland. Starmer has to win in England.

You have to look at the electorate you have and work in the context you are in.

Johnson's polling is still high - because of covid. Normal issues are not having the same impact they would normally - because of covid. People don't want party politics - because of covid.

And it doesn't matter what people who follow politics think. The next election, like every election, will be decided by people who don't really care about politics.

Fakeflake · 03/02/2021 09:54

Well OP why not vote Tory then if that's what you'd prefer and let the labour party be a left wing alternative to the sort of neoliberalism both Blair and the Tories pedal. However I'm no fan of Starmer he's been useless and this new idea of hyping up nationalism to win votes is repugnant. I'd like to see someone from the left at the helm who would hopefully not be dragged through the mud by the right wing press this time.

PotDaffodil · 03/02/2021 09:56

I liked Corbyn and McDonnell. McDonnell more, to be honest. I have no time or patience for the middle class usurpation of what is supposed to be a movement of and for the working classes, who have never needed it more. I won’t be voting for another New Labour, never mind an even worse option, which is all it looks like Keir Starmer can provide.

Sooverthemill · 03/02/2021 09:59

I understand your views, kind of, and I am tempted to leave Labour as I'm an actual member if they do take this line. But they will have done lots of focus groups and polls and this is the way to get Labour back in Government ( they say). I hate the idea of the Union Flag and the Right Wingers being used in this way. Loathe Patriotism. It all leads to the Far Right in my view. But I don't think he's had long enough in power ( and during a pandemic ) to really make his mark. I do not w at the Tories to remain in government and I think the way Johnson has handled th pandemic and Brexit may well lose him voters. But Labour must continue to look outward not become an insular nationalistic Party

Ikora · 03/02/2021 10:08

I had a student canvass me on my doorstep at the last election, she informed me she was a student studying at the University I had worked at for 15 years.

She decided I needed a lecture on identity politics, that was what she wanted to talk about. Not the economy, the NHS, cuts in public services, education or the environment. We had a debate and she became I would say quite hostile. I had told her my area of research though I did not go in to explicit detail. I suppose in my utter exasperation I was attempting to tell her I was capable of critical thinking. She spent the entire time talking down to me.

The Labour Party seems to be incredibly excellent at destroying itself over and over again.