Am i being insensitive or aiding and abetting?

[Charlielilu]

Content warning: abortion, birth defect, mentions still birth.

Am i being a cow? SiL had to have an abortion at 14 weeks because baby had a severe defect (not viable at all). The year since then she still talks about the baby being in the sky with her grandma and visiting my 18 month old to play. Every time my daughter points to something in the distance or looks at the sky its "oh, shes looking at her cousin!". She has made a family whatsapp group with updates she writes from the baby's perspective in heaven. She has an instagram account and a community of mums who are the same (but usually for viable baby loss or stillborn) on instagram. This sunday is a year since she lost the pregnancy and she is sad because she wanted to hold a birthday party for the baby but cant because of covid restrictions.
I honestly feel like im going mad with it all. Me and my husband arent religious and dont believe that the baby is sitting on a cloud waving at our daughter. I dont want to have a birthday party for the day she had to have an abortion, because i just think its a sad occasion. She gets angry if we dont mention the baby and always tells her parents that they shouldnt forget they have 2 grandchildren, not just 1. She gets angry and sad if we dont talk about the baby but what can we say at this point? Am i being an absolute knob? I am there for her and never say anything negative or to the contrary when she talks about the baby in the sky eating grandma's food. But I worry what the end game is here and how to explain it sensitively to my daughter when her auntie is talking to her about a 14 week old fetus playing with her.
My SiL is in therapy and seems to be doing well there, her husband sees no problem with it and even takes her staged photos for instagram (releasing a balloon to commemorate every month). Its making me uneasy now. Would love to know if I'm just being insensitive.

Sounds very draining, it must put you all in a very awkward position, especially with comments like ‘don’t forget you have 2 grandchildren’ but grief is individual and we can’t tell others how they should be/feel.

I think other posters are right, just smile and nod but protect your daughter from it as much as possible and if you feel she’s overstepping the mark remove DD from the situation.

Imo dragging your dc into her grief is wrong. I have lost 2 dc and it isn't common knowledge to my dc as it isn't appropriate or something I want to dwell on. A certain large family visit a grave of a miscarried baby. Not healthy for existing dc again imo. I know a man who's entire life has been taken over by a lost sibling he has no memory of. I know it's different for different people but your sil needs therapy and to keep her business off social media.

She is struggling by the sounds of it.

I wouldn't want her talking to my young child like this though. I do think you need to tell her you support her but she has to stop talking like this in front of your child. It's confusing.
She's not coping and needs more therapy

You are absolutely not unreasonable.

I have 3 healthy children (aged 19,16 and 9 now).

I have also had 6 miscarriages. 2 after birth of DD1 and 4 between DD2 and DS (including one at 16 weeks, one 14 weeks and 2 at 12 weeks). I do not, and never have, expected even my own children to engage in any sort of ritual regarding these losses. Or acknowledge their “siblings” in any way.

Pregnancy loss is devastating. And it is very healthy to discuss it more freely. But it is essentially personal. It is certainly not something that small children could or should have to accommodate whilst playing.

That said, I have no idea how you set about rectifying this. Your Sil is grieving and I know from experience that it is awful.

YANBU to feel uncomfortable.

At the same time, I see termination of a wanted pregnancy as a very sad occasion. (That said, that doesn’t make a birthday party a good idea.)

@AnneLovesGilbert

Not “just a miscarriage”? Have you ever experienced “just” a miscarriage Susan?

Let’s not start the grief Olympics

It isn't about grief Olympics but surely it feels different losing a loved and wanted baby when you had no control and actively choosing to terminate a loved and wanted baby. Even just by the language, and people's response. Sounds like the SIL might be carrying a lot of guilt (she chose this, she actively went along with it, what if she hadn't, what if she'd given baby a chance etc).

I have 3 children, we lost the 2nd one at 14 weeks.
Oh dear, in so sorry.

I have 3 children, I aborted the 2nd one at 14 weeks.
You had an abortion??

Not better or worse, just different

Your poor sil is obviously really struggling and my heart goes out to her but I can't blame you at all for feeling really uncomfortable with it. It must have been absolutely heartbreaking for her to have to end a much wanted pregnancy so I'd say that's what has caused the extra grief and trauma. Then add in lockdown and all of us being isolated and unable to live our normal lives anyway and it probably compounded her grief. I'd suggest having a word with her husband as her therapy is obviously not working.

I've had a couple of miscarriages, and I also had to have a TFMR

The TFMR definitely feels the most raw, even though it was before the miscarriages.

The gestation of a TFMR is also not really relevant...

I had mine just before the 24 week cut off, but only because the hospital were very efficient at the tests and follow ups after our disastrous 20 week scan, and were able to give me an appointment, and I had made my mind up as to what I wanted.

I've had a few thinly-veiled references to that being 'better' or 'not as tough' as if it had been a few weeks later. It's a horrible feeling to think you would be getting a more sympathetic reception from people if only you'd delayed the appointment a few more weeks, or the hospital hadn't been able to squeeze you in.

When you start equating the seriousness of grief from a TFMR with the gestation, you are adding another 'what if' to a situation already absolutely full of them.
Eg: What if I had waited a few more weeks before deciding to end it, and then I wouldn't be getting eyes rolled behind my back at the 14 week fetus I lost, and would instead get sympathy about the 25 week still birth...

I would imagine going through an unwanted abortion for medical reasons is more traumatic than a m.c.
The preparation, the visit, the abortion many find it traumatic with an unwanted pregnancy never mind a wanted one.
Her DC playing with hers is odd the baby in the sky wouldn't bother me.
I hope she has another baby it'll ease her grief.

I feel for her, having lost babies myself (four miscarriages) but including your daughter is not appalling and the WhatsApp thing is a bit odd.

I have a slightly similar experience - my sister died aged 32. At the time, my son was a toddler. My mum kept saying that she thought my son was somehow communicating with my sister's spirit. Eventually, it became very clear that my son was talking about something else.

She did make me uncomfortable, though and I did ask her not to encourage ds to think he was seeing my sister's ghost.

Not APPROPRIATE ffs

It sounds like she’s struggling but she shouldn’t be bringing your child into it. That’s not appropriate and it’s no wonder you’re feeling uncomfortable. If it were me I’d have to say something and put a stop to it. Could you speak to her DP about it?

It might not be what you believe. It might not be what she believes but it is her getting through each day.
Yanbu to think it.
Y would be u to say anything to her.

I think she’s really struggling, but bringing you and your child into it isn’t really fair, IMO. Brutally, a 14 week old foetus coming to play with a cousin? It’s all a bit imaginary friend and I can see why it makes you uncomfortable. Saying this, I’ve never experienced a loss, I think I might be being far too prosaic.

limit contact between your family and her, there is nothing wrong with healthy boundaries. she sounds like she is either mentally unwell and trying to deal with this or else she is attention seeking in the weirdest way ever! this would make me very uncomfortable to be around though and after a while i would be massively eyerolling at every mention of a baby/foetus in the sky!

You are being insensitive. She clearly is struggling if she is in therapy, and these actions may help her come to terms with her loss. Many women miscarry at 12+ weeks and it is very distressing as they have seen the baby and made plans for the future. Your SIL had to make a decision to abort this much wanted baby so it's probably more difficult as there was an actual decision to make and not just taken out of her hands by miscarriage

Just show sympathy and hope she comes to terms with the loss. Everyone reacts differently and this is her way. I'm sure it's not attention seeking as you are implying

This sounds like complex grief. I wonder what kind of therapy she is having. She needs specialist bereavement support.
You are not being insensitive, and I agree your young daughter should not be being involved in helping her process her grief.
I speak from experience- a friend very sadly had a miscarriage, and involved her young daughter heavily in her grieving process, to the point where her daughter (age 5) now regularly gets extremely upset, and sobbing, that she has lost a sibling. This is confusing, it’s distressing and it’s not fair.

I've come across someone like this. She just got totally stuck on it. She joined Facebook groups and other online communities full of other people with the same stories about their babies and sharing public posts about people with "fake angel babies" who she had "found out". Three years after the fact, it was still all she talked about, ever. She had other (living) kids and she never seemed to give them a thought anymore, it was so sad. I had to give up in the end, it was just nonstop high-octane drama. I really hope she got help.

@samanthawashington

You are being insensitive. She clearly is struggling if she is in therapy, and these actions may help her come to terms with her loss. Many women miscarry at 12+ weeks and it is very distressing as they have seen the baby and made plans for the future. Your SIL had to make a decision to abort this much wanted baby so it's probably more difficult as there was an actual decision to make and not just taken out of her hands by miscarriage

Just show sympathy and hope she comes to terms with the loss. Everyone reacts differently and this is her way. I'm sure it's not attention seeking as you are implying

I don’t think that’s at all fair. I don’t think the OP is implying that. Other posters have.

Thanks all for your perspective. I would never ever be cruel enough to tell her my true feelings on it. But like a few of you said: I am unsure if this is truely doing her any favours. Part of me thinks she's fallen into a rabbit hole with the instagram page and its not actually helping her, she uses it like a stereotypical social media influencer "follow4follow", "who wants to hear about Lia (the baby's name) story in my next post?" Etc. 😩 which I just find.....odd. and sad, to be honest.
My brother and his wife had 8 miscarriages before their DD, and I think because they dealt with them all in such a different way I'm a bit taken aback with the best way to support my SiL. But like some of you said, there is no rule book to grief and I know I will never know what she's been through. I just want to firstly make sure it doesn't affect my daughter (simply saying "the baby is in heaven" isn't an option because we arent religious and I want DD to make her own decisions on what to believe in when she's old enough) and also make sure that my SiL is dealing with it in a healthy way.
Her husband is 100% in agreement with all she does. So is his family. Her family know if they disagree with her in any way she will blow her top.

Well it clearly is attention seeking as she is constantly bringing attention to her loss. Whether you consider it to be healthy/ justified/ appropriate is a different question but she is definitely wanting attention. Her family seem to feel it’s an appropriate way to deal with her grief but it is up to the OP how much she wants to involve herself and her daughter in the grieving process.

What does your DH think @Charlielilu? Would he back you if you asked her not to involve your child?

Also please tell me that your brother and his wife don't have to come into contact with her. After 8 miscarriages themselves, I can't imagine how they'd cope with her.

I'd worry how she'll react to your DD in a year or so when she tells her she can't see her cousin and isn't playing with her. She could become the focus of your SIL's emotions.

I think as miscarriage has been swept under the carpet for sinking and women now only recently feel more comfortable opening up about this unique sort of bereavement, we are still feeling our way societally in terms of the most healthy way to navigate this grief.
My instinct tells me that this is not it, based only on anecdotal evidence of all the women I know who unfortunately have had miscarriages, the two who are still profoundly struggling years on, both dealt with their grief in a similar way to to SIL. It didn’t help them in the long run. Maybe it does for other people though, I’ve no idea.