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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to think we need to have our dog PTS

155 replies

HastyPasty · 31/01/2021 07:55

Our dog has just attacked his sixth dog in the last two years and I am so distraught but I don't think we can carry on like this!

For background we adopted our dog when an elderly family member passed away two years ago. She was a complete recluse and the dog had never left her house/ garden or been trained. Despite that he loved our kids and they him and although dog was elderly (12 at the time) we thought we could give him a good home.

During the first week with us he attacked my brothers dog very badly (at this point we hadn't taken him out for a walk as we were getting him used to things). It was awful, there was no warning, he saw my brothers dog and just went for her. We did a lot of reading and spoke to a dog charity for some advise and then started taking him out for short walks. Then we realised how aggressive he is to other dogs. He seems to want to kill them all, the second he sees one he will try to attack. So far he has attacked -

My brothers dog
A drunk strangers dog who decided to bring his dog over despite me screaming at him not to
A small dog when he managed somehow to slip his harness and he nearly knocked the elderly owner over
A neighbours dog when he got out of a window, how he managed that I don't know but neighbour is utterly traumatised
Next doors dog when he actually dug a small tunnel under the fence to get to it (he had been doing this under a bush so neither of us noticed)

Then lastly, yesterday my adult child took the dog out and the dog managed to yank his lead out of his hand, escape and attack yet another dog.

It's honestly heartbreaking because my dog seems like the loveliest dog and we spend all our time together, but he is dangerous and so fast for an old boy.

Oh also since lock down he guards me. I think he got used to it being me and him during the day and hates the kids and DH being around and will growl and bark at them if they get too close to me when I am relaxing. He actually nearly went for DH the other day. This isn't constant, if I am up and about he's fine but if I'm laying on the sofa wathhing TV he starts.

Anyway I'm at a loss. DH is doing he usual let's wait and see (brilliant husband generally but does not do decisions like this and won't really discuss it) and I just would really appreciate other people's thoughts!

Oh PS I have tried a number of different muzzles and dog has managed to slip them all off in record time.

YANBU sadly dog is dangerous and needs to be PTS
YABU don't do it, try...

OP posts:

SummersMumma · 31/01/2021 20:22

@wetotter you really could try a bit of compassion. You will end up with Frost bite being so cold!
OP I'm not a dog owner and cannot offer advice but a virtual hug sent your way love x

Thisgirlcanrun · 31/01/2021 20:23

The ladder of aggression is also quite a good tool with learning about dog behaviour

maxxipaws.com/blog/maxxiblog-6/post/canine-ladder-of-aggression-21

lyralalala · 31/01/2021 20:27

thank you so much and you are completely right and it is my responsibility. DHs too, but really mine since the dog seems to think he's my dog... And it is my responsibility that he has been able to do this 6 times and has had six chances and I know its too many and those poor people and their poor dogs. I think about one of the owners a lot because I don't think she will ever get over her dog being attacked. That was a time he escaped so he literally came out of nowhere. It was lucky I was just getting home from work and I literally abandoned my car in the middle of the road to stop it. No one in the house had realised the dog had escaped!

It sounds like it's pure chance the dog hasn't killed anyone yet @HastyPasty

Now he's started to get defensive of you and has taken to growling and barking at your family. He almost went for your DH.

I don't want to be overly horrible, but think about the way he attacks those dogs... He is showing signs of building to attaching your DH (or possibly one of your DC).

Can you honestly say that more muzzles or head collars are going to stop that? Because it has gone beyond how do you stop him attacking other dogs. It's about stopping him attacking other dogs AND people. And in the nicest possible way he's not been stopped five times since the first attack so how can you be sure he'll be stopped next time he goes for a dog or a human in your home?

Also, you know he's aggressive to dogs and is becoming aggressive to people. You might want to look up where you'll stand legally if he injures a person because you won't be able to say it was unexpected with his history.

lyralalala · 31/01/2021 20:27

*attacking, not attaching

Thisgirlcanrun · 31/01/2021 20:28

dogcommunication.co.uk/tag/ladder-to-aggression/

SunAwaits · 31/01/2021 21:02

@HastyPasty you are not alone and it's an incredibly hard choice. We have a dog aggressive small dog and everyone from our vet, to the special behaviour vet to our trainer have said if he was a bigger dog they would recommend PTS however as he is little we manage his issues.

DahliaRoses · 31/01/2021 21:11

@Notimeforaname

I'm just going to come off this thread as I'm starting to cry. So sorry op. Hope you can make the right decision for you.

Why on earth are you crying about a strangers dog? Overreaction!

SuitedandBooted · 31/01/2021 21:14

I would PTS

I understand your husbands need to avoid a decision, but he's being really irresponsible. It's a really, difficult, heart-breaking choice, but avoiding it is pretty ridiculous in such an old and increasingly aggressive dog. What is he hoping for? A marked change in behaviour (dog is 14!), him suddenly thinking, "No, I will just give all dogs a friendly tail-wag and pass on by". This dog tunnelled out of your garden so he could get at another dog!

Haven't your neighbours called the police yet? I would. And I would be expecting you to pay the excess on my dog's vet bills too. I also wonder if you could be sued if he bit a human, given his tendency to attack. You know he's not safe, - so they could argue you are negligent by taking him outside.......

I really understand that you love him. I have always had dogs myself, and losing them is awful. But they don't trump the safety of your family, other people or their pets, particularly when they are so old and behaviour training isn't really possible

makingmammaries · 31/01/2021 21:19

None of my (large, strong) dogs can get out of the Baskerville Ultra muzzle if the top strap is fitted properly and attached to the dog's collar and the main strap tightened adequately on the dog's neck. I can't honestly see how it is impossible to get a muzzle that will stay on, and use it as necessary. An ergonomic lead would also be helpful so that the dog doesn't yank the lead from its walker's hand. This elderly dog could still have a couple of decent years ahead of him and it seems a pity to have him PTS.

CakeRequired · 31/01/2021 21:41

[quote HastyPasty]@CakeRequired thank you so much. I love my dog but he did come with so many issues. If I was told about his issues in the first place I would have been more cautious about offering to home him but once he was here it was like he had always been here and I thought we could help. We clearly didn't though which is so sad... I definitely think you're right though and there's some cognitive decline too :([/quote]
No one could have helped him, not even a vet. If it is cognitive decline, you can't stop that and it will only get worse which can happen rapidly. You gave him a while longer in a loving home, that's all he can ask for after going through two owners dying. You've done everything, it's just the end for him now.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 31/01/2021 22:49

As for breed he's some sort of a terrier, possibly lake land

Terriers are notoriously reactive dogs (though not always aggressive). However there are some breeds which are almost always on their toes and lakeland are one of these. They are really best kept as working dogs - they have a tremendous prey drive and a strong fighting instinct. They aren't nasty animals, but their reactions are so fast and instinctive that they need to be well-trained from early in life to control them.

I've been bitten breaking u a dog fight - neither dog meant to bite me, but they don't differentiate because they are so focussed on the ruck - but it bloody HURTS! I was very lucky - I was bitten on a fleshy area and no lasting damage was done. You can easily lose the use of a finger if you get a bad bite on your hand and the tendons are severed.

Serin · 31/01/2021 23:25

I have complete sympathy OP. My Grandmothers previously loving Jack Russell became increasingly aggressive in his old age until he attacked her so badly that he ripped through the veins in her legs and she required hospitalising.
She loved that dog and really should have taken the vets advice to have him PTS earlier, when the aggression was escalating.

Griselda1 · 31/01/2021 23:39

Get a veterinary assessment of his health. My instinct would be to change routines, walking times etc so that I could keep him alive until it's just not viable. Only you know what's possible, I walk my dog in a huge park where a woman shouts at all oncoming people not to go near her dog, put your dog on a lead etc. She acknowledges that her innocent looking spaniel is totally vicious and once you encounter her once you don't forget it.

CaffeineAndCrochet · 31/01/2021 23:59

OP, I sympathise with you, I really do, but I'm also kind of furious reading this thread. Six dogs have been attacked so far. You love your dog but the other owners love their dogs just as much as you love yours. Six dogs! Even though thankfully they've all survived, most if not all are likely to have either long lasting physical or mental effects from what your dog did to them. I know dogs that were attacked years ago who are still afraid of other dogs as a result.

Yes, he's your dog and you've tried hard and you love him, but if he escapes and attacks again, then another dog owner who loves their dog just as much as you love yours may have to put their own dog to sleep.

niveacreme · 01/02/2021 00:23

It should have been PTS 6 attacks ago to be honest. it’s a shame for the dog but it’s irresponsible to have let it go on as long as it did

QuestionableMouse · 01/02/2021 04:41

@makingmammaries

The problem with smaller dogs is you have less surface area to work with and their heads tend to be curvier relatively. What works on a large dog may not on a small one. My aggressive dog was a Yorkshire terrier and his nose was about an inch long and maybe half that wide.

DuaneAgain · 01/02/2021 05:32

I honestly don't mean to sound nasty, but it sounds like you can't control him. To repeatedly get out the window, escape his harness, get off his lead....you need to be hyper alert to prevent these things happening if you know he is a risk to other animals. And I think you should absolutely persist in finding a muzzle that fits as this would 100% stop the possibility of him seriously harming another animal.

I've been walking my friend's dog for months now as he (my friend) has hurt his knee - we're in a bubble. His dog is an eight year old adopted bull mastiff who is very good with people and generally well trained, walks to heel etc. But he is not good with other dogs and will respond if provoked (always seems to be smaller yappy dogs that have a go first).

Because he is so incredibly strong I have to be extremely alert, because even as a 6'2 guy who lifts weights he could probably pull me over if he lunged unexpectedly.

DuaneAgain · 01/02/2021 05:40

On a side note, dog aggression doesn't necessarily indicate that a dog is likely to attack humans (although no doubt some dogs are just all round aggressive).

For example, many fighting dogs in centuries past were bred for 'gameness' and the ability to fight to near death, but they also needed to be able to obey the owner and not bite him when he tried to separate the dogs - dogs that bit their owners were usually PTS.

purplecorkheart · 01/02/2021 06:00

Sorry but you need to put that dog to sleep. Your children are unsafe in their own home at present. You can not guarantee that the dig will not go for them if they try to give their mom s cuddle. You got upset at your daughter because she opened the door, you don't hug your kids as much because of the dog. Sorry but that is no way for kids to live.

The dog has attacked six other dogs, sorry but the dog needs to be pts asap. You mention that some of victim's owners are traumatised after the attacks but the doggy is your best buddy so what, are the victims owners are just meant to deal with it. Your dog digged a tunnel with you knowing about it. How is your neighbour going feel their dog is safe knowing your dog is next door? Their mental health is suffering because of your dog.

Both you and your dh need to grow up and make a tough call! You cannot muzzle a dog 24 hours a day. You cannot have the dog on a harness for 24 hours a day. It is a case of when and who this dog will attack.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 01/02/2021 13:57

On a side note, dog aggression doesn't necessarily indicate that a dog is likely to attack humans (although no doubt some dogs are just all round aggressive).

You are absolutely right - but the accidental chances of getting bitten breaking up a fight can be high - especially if attacked dog stands up for itself - you can also then get a "running fight" which is just physically hard to keep up with as the tussle goes back and forth - that's how I got bitten.

But you are right, that a dog-aggressive dog isn't always one that people need to be frightened of (though it looks from what OP has said that the dog has taken a dislike to one of her children, too.)

tenbananasaday · 01/02/2021 14:25

@DuaneAgain

On a side note, dog aggression doesn't necessarily indicate that a dog is likely to attack humans (although no doubt some dogs are just all round aggressive).

Yes, that's right but it doesn't make it any better. Speak to the owners who have had a beloved animal attacked or killed by an out of control dog because it is extremely traumatic and damaging thing to have happen. I don't have any advice for OP, it's a horrible situation and I don't know what I would do.

CuntyMcBollocks · 01/02/2021 14:34

Ignore the judgemental idiots on here OP. It seems like you have done all you could for the poor dog and you have my sympathy. I think it would be best for everyone to have the dog PTS.

DuaneAgain · 01/02/2021 14:49

I agree it can be really traumatising to have a pet badly injured or killed, but a dog aggressive dog can be managed. However, one that had a tendency to attack people is much more problematic as you can't have the muzzle on all the time.

Original poster

HastyPasty · 01/02/2021 15:18

Hi, thank you everyone for all the comments. I have decided we can't carry on. Dog is currently sitting on top of me because youngest daughter came to speak to me and he didn't like it and even if I could make him stop this behaviour I cannot 100% guarantee he won't get out of the house again. The tunneling under the fence proved that. I can't muzzle him 24/7 either, that would be horrible. I haven't rung the vets yet because I need to make sure I'm going to be able to get the words out and I can't even write this without getting tearful. I will try tomorrow but I want at least another week with my best friend.

Sorry I didn't reply to everyone, I tried to yesterday but I keep getting too emotional! I really really appreciate the support I have found on this thread so much. DH has decided (separately) the same as me which is a relief as I also feel like we are in this together and I'm not a best friend murdering bitch on my own. DH even said he would go but there is no way I would ever leave dog in his last moments... Anyway so that's the decision. I'm heartbroken but will focus on the kids for a while, dog has sort of come first for a long time because of his behaviour.

Will try and update this thread once it's all done. Oh and dog does have a name, I haven't used it because this thread is fairly outing as it is and I don't want anyone ever letting slip to the kids that this happened because I am planning on lying through my teeth to them. I think all of them have inadvertently helped dog to escape at some point and I don't want them to feel responsible.

OP posts:

OhWhyNot · 01/02/2021 15:22

You are being kind and doing the best thing

He has had a lovely time with you and he won’t suffer X

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