AIBU to think we need to have our dog PTS

[HastyPasty]

Our dog has just attacked his sixth dog in the last two years and I am so distraught but I don't think we can carry on like this!

For background we adopted our dog when an elderly family member passed away two years ago. She was a complete recluse and the dog had never left her house/ garden or been trained. Despite that he loved our kids and they him and although dog was elderly (12 at the time) we thought we could give him a good home.

During the first week with us he attacked my brothers dog very badly (at this point we hadn't taken him out for a walk as we were getting him used to things). It was awful, there was no warning, he saw my brothers dog and just went for her. We did a lot of reading and spoke to a dog charity for some advise and then started taking him out for short walks. Then we realised how aggressive he is to other dogs. He seems to want to kill them all, the second he sees one he will try to attack. So far he has attacked -

• My brothers dog
• A drunk strangers dog who decided to bring his dog over despite me screaming at him not to
• A small dog when he managed somehow to slip his harness and he nearly knocked the elderly owner over
• A neighbours dog when he got out of a window, how he managed that I don't know but neighbour is utterly traumatised
• Next doors dog when he actually dug a small tunnel under the fence to get to it (he had been doing this under a bush so neither of us noticed)

Then lastly, yesterday my adult child took the dog out and the dog managed to yank his lead out of his hand, escape and attack yet another dog.

It's honestly heartbreaking because my dog seems like the loveliest dog and we spend all our time together, but he is dangerous and so fast for an old boy.

Oh also since lock down he guards me. I think he got used to it being me and him during the day and hates the kids and DH being around and will growl and bark at them if they get too close to me when I am relaxing. He actually nearly went for DH the other day. This isn't constant, if I am up and about he's fine but if I'm laying on the sofa wathhing TV he starts.

Anyway I'm at a loss. DH is doing he usual let's wait and see (brilliant husband generally but does not do decisions like this and won't really discuss it) and I just would really appreciate other people's thoughts!

Oh PS I have tried a number of different muzzles and dog has managed to slip them all off in record time.

YANBU sadly dog is dangerous and needs to be PTS
YABU don't do it, try...

@moirarosebabay (oh now I have that accent stuck in my head and DH is not fond of my poor impressions!) I know and I agree and I sadly feel its not if he escapes, it's when, he's a brilliant escape artist and add to which we have four children opening doors all the time. Even today one of them opened the front door to look outside because she thought someone knocked and then she just stood there with the door open. I was so upset with her. But she's a child and really doesn't get it!

@lastbonestanding I agree, he is dangerous and I can't guarantee it because he's escaped three times and tried to dig his way out... Actually more than three times, the other two he didn't run into any dogs. I just think it's when and it's breaking my heart

Oh no OP, how horrible for you

I agree, you've done everything you can. If it helps at all, I left it too late before having our last dog PTS and will never forgive myself for it, although in his case it was physical ill health.

It sounds like he's unhappy more and more often, and he poses a risk to others. Can you take some time off work and just dedicate yourself to giving him the best possible last few days? All his favourite foods, quiet time with just him and you, whatever makes him happiest.

I walk him when it's quiet and he's never allowed off the lead. Ever. It's very stessful. We have had several behaviourists work with him and they said they couldn't help so a muzzle and harness is our only option. He's not a rescue but we found out when the behaviours started that his mum was the same and that some of the other pups in his litter were displaying the same behaviours. 2 of his siblings have been pts for this and another 1 rehomed.

If my dogs behaviour was to deteriorate further and the current measures stop working, he will be pts.

Like yours, he's lovely to us in the house. Ours is great with the kids and the other dogs but dogs outwith our household are a no go.

[quote HastyPasty]@sansasnark I did read a lot about lake land terriers and read that they are aggressive to other dogs. He really does seem thoroughly pleased with himself every time he's managed to attack another dog, I really think he thinks that's what he's supposed to do. He ignores horses entirely and once he saw a cat and just seemed a bit confused! I think other dog owners don't see him as dangerous because of his size and he does (and I know I'm biased) have the cutest, most friendly looking face. And they never notice the orange lead or seem that bothered that his is visibly trying everything he can to get at their dogs [/quote]
I agree- it is an issue that they look cute and fluffy, and they are small, so people don't see them as a threat. And they are clever, so fully dog-proofing your garden would be tricky.

I know you've had useful suggestions from other people on the thread- but I do think you are going to have to accept this is the way he is, and try to work out if there is any way you can safely manage him but still give him a good quality of life- and if the answer is no, then sadly PTS is the only option.

It must be really tough for you- but you will be doing the right thing.

I think you have to have him PTS.

His guarding behaviour of you is extremely worrying behaviour in a dog that's already attacked 6 other dogs.

It's always extremely sad to have an animal PTS, and tragic when it's because they weren't trained properly as puppies, but if he attacks your DH, DC or another person you'll have to live with the consequences of that forever as will they. That's not a chance you can take.

One of the biggest responsibilities of having a pet, imo, is knowing when it's time to let them go.

@santaiscovidfree I'm so sorry you lost Oscar and what a lovely name! And I'm sorry you feel guilty, it sounds like you tried too! And (and also to @stripyhoglets1) it is lucky re the police, every time it has happened I have been waiting for the police to come. Its been gut wrenching.

@Peacocking I know you are right although I don't want to think he would hurt a human he could if they got in the way. And these other dogs and their owners deserve to walk in peace without being attacked. It's just so hard.
@CSIblonde thanks for the suggestion, I will do that tomorrow while (allegedly) homeschooling the kids. My child won't be walking him again, although child is taller and much stronger than me I suspect he also gets distracted by his phone easier to and maybe hadn't quite realised the seriousness of it all (despite repeatedly reassuring me he would be fine and he understood). Thanks again for the tips

@booearing I know you are right, I really do, it's just so hard. They will be heartbroken too, but you are right, it could all end so so badly.

@nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut this is pretty much what the trainer said, that because there is no warning (and he can't even be stopped with his favorite treats) she didn't think he would ever be safe around other dogs. She gave us various things to try and keep trying but she felt he should just be kept away from them. If we do PTS and I don't know how we can't, he will be the most spoilt dog in the world. I know his previous owner must have fed him toast because he reacts when toad is made. We don't but he can have all the toast he likes. Argh. Tearful again. This is ridiculous. No more pets for me, it's too much!

@user1491404899 it must have been so sad but your mum did the right thing. Argh it's so easy to be sensible about things when it's not you and I'm a big mess of (not pretty) tears. Thank you for sharingxxx

@Cherrysoup that had been exactly dog in the past (before he started showing aggression towards people near me), he lived people but genuinely wants to kill any other dog he sees. It's awful. I don't know that we have options now but I am absolutely going to try every single suggestion on this thread if I can before I do anything else!

@TheDukeissoHot1 I really wouldn't and I'm so sorry for your child. I was nearly bitten once as a child and was scared of dogs for a long time. I hope your child is okay and not traumatised!!!

@biddybird thank you. I don't think DH will ever have another dog, he pretends he didn't want this one but he feeds it and I've seen them two sitting together in the evenings... That said I don't think I could either although it's going to leave a massive hole in my life. I'll have to go to the bathroom on my own (not currently allowed by dog!) little things like that (which currently drives me bonkers) will be so sad.

@justnotfunanymore thank you so much and I definitely will!

@CSIblonde

Don't let your child walk him if has issues . He can't slip out of a properly fitted harness, which gives you more strength to control him. Those reinforced canvas & velcro muzzles are nigh on impossible to slip out of ( why vets use them) . I'd strongly suggest binge watching Victoria Stilwell's , It's me or the Dog , on You Tube, before the PTS option. Victoria has sorted this in every breed , old dogs, young dogs, etc.Then at least you've explored every option before PTS. If you remain calm & walk around 15steps, every time he sees another dog, ( instantly , you can't hover, it ramps up his fear based aggression) , then praise when he's calmed down , then resume the walk, he will get better. You need to do this consistently. And keep him on a lead at all times with family member dogs.

I absolutely wouldn’t do this. You have no idea what the real stories are behind the tv shows and it sounds like this has gone beyond even professional face to face training. I would do as others have suggested and give him a nice few days at joke being spoiled and then Pts. He won’t know. He’ll just have his last few days and hours as happy and calm as possible.

At home. Not joke. Sorry

Do you have done more than most people would have to give him this long.

Oh sweetheart, fucking awful as it is, you know what you have to do. It’s very sad.

I’m a dog lover but I do think he is too dangerous. What happens if the next time you walk he slips the lead and goes for a child? How will you feel if that child has life changing injuries or much worse.
The parent then finds out this dog has attacked 6 other dogs before as well as being very protective over you?

I think deep down you know putting him down is the right thing to do

@lougle I will look thank you!

@lupinhere37 I am so sorry for your experience, is sounds awful and devestating! It doesn't sound like you have anything to be guilty about though. He was lucky to have had you!

@ohwhynot thank you, we will, or maybe a week or two, although I know if we do decide and I delay it will be a purely selfish thing. Before lock down I worked from home so it feels like it's always been me and the dog.

@GuyFawkesDay I'm so sorry for your loss, how very sad, I wonder if ours could have something similar. The dog hating has always been there but the other behaviours haven't. Right now mine has just grumbled at me again which is very unusual. And all I did was change where I was sitting!

@Star81 and @kindlingtwigs yes that is a terrifying thought and I would be lying if I said I didn't worry about it! I keep thinking that he wouldn't but then that's just because I don't want to think he could. Looking at his behaviour logically he might well do.

@Bookwords thank you so much. My heart is breaking a bit but I would rather have had dog in my life than not.

@SirenSays I would never PTS because it was easier because just from a selfish point of view my life will be worse without my dog. We are a pair, have been since he arrives. I spend more time with my dog than I do with anyone else. I will try everything in this thread and ask the vet to fit a different muzzle (he has done one) and about different harnesses. But if I can't be sure he's safe I don't know what else I can do. In all honestly my brothers dog has never fully recovered from when he attacked her.

It's sad, but he's a danger to other animals and from what you've said, people are next. He doesn't understand any better, which isn't on you despite what some idiot on the first page said, but he's old now, chances of you training him out of this are slim. I think he's actually probably got some cognitive decline to be honest, hence why he growled at you.

It's sad, but safer to get it done before he attacks someone.

I will try everything in this thread and ask the vet to fit a different muzzle

You can't muzzle a dog 24/7 so how is that going to help with his behaviour when he gets defensive of you?

It might protect other dogs, but it won't protect your family.

I think reluctantly you have to have him PTS
That could be a child next time

Haven’t read posts after mine, but is he aggressive to people outside the house? Mine loves people but we’re incredibly antisocial so he only ever sees the neighbour, really. The only reason he’d ever hurt a person is if they tried to separate him and their dog, I suppose, never happened, fortunately, but a big Akita cross got the owner of the collie who was trying to get it off his dog. He ended up with stitches.

I can understand people saying ‘oh it’s sad, but you know what you have to do’, but I would muzzle, walk at odd times, avoid popular places etc. The dog is unlikely to ever accept other dogs, but I can happily walk mine up the road, crossing over to avoid oncoming dogs etc and let him off in safe places only.

@jesusinthecabbagevan I'm so sorry for your loss! It must be so hard to make a decision based in physical health when I assume your dog was having good times and bad times. Letting go must be the most awful thing. I still can't quite believe I am probably going to have to do this. It seems impossible and unbearable as I expect it did for you. Its so sad!

@seepingweeping thank you again! I will look into a different type of muzzle and speak to the vet and do everything else I can. My fear is even if I can do that how can I guarantee he won't escape the house again... Still I want to try everything!

@Sansasnark thank you yet again. I really appreciate all your input. I am going to take notes, research, speak to the vets, get him checked over again and make sure I've done everything. But much as I'm heartbroken at the thought I am also so sad for all the dogs (and their owners) that have suffered too so I will do the right thing if I can't ensure he is no longer a danger.

You might find a properly fitting headcollar better than a harness. I walk my escape artist of a Jack Russell in one (he's one of the long legged ones). Every escape proof harness ended up off, usually over his head.

A half check chain, a halti link and a dogmatic headcollar are escape proof for him. He can wiggle out of any sort of properly fitted flat collar but the half check means even if he gets his headcollar off, he can't get the half check over his head because it tightens up.

Don't feel guilty though if you do decide pts is the right option. I lived with a reactive dog for years and he bit me multiple times. He was pts due to old age (at 18!!!) and while I felt really sad, I also felt a great sense of relief too.

This post left me very torn, as I can sympathise with your pain and would feel very heartbroken over having to PTS a much loved pet. However, as one of my incredibly gentle dog was attacked completley unprovoked by a smaller Terrier type dog and sustained horrendous injuries, I feel so bad for the owners of all of those hurt dogs. If I found out that your dog had already attacked so many dogs before mine, regardless of the circumstances and your efforts, I would report you to the police. It isn't meant to be a mean attack on you but how many dog owners would react under the circumstances and the responsible thing to do giving the escalating and continuing serious aggressive attacks.

This isn't about you and your emotions though. Besides the breed specific aggression towards other dogs and the difficult past, the agression is clearly escalating. So, you have to set aside sentimentality and consider what is the kindest thing to do for this dog. Yes, you could keep the dog only in your garden, spoil it with treats etc. But you need to accept this is gone beyond just attacking other dogs but he also now showing a lot of aggression to your family members and starting to display aggressive behaviour towards even you, his main person. This is not a happy or well dog. He is likely to be in a lot of pain, has declining senses, which will be terrifying and possibly some neurological issues. I reckon you need to take comfort that you have provided a loving home in his later years but put your own feelings aside and let him go.

I really feel for you OP.

But I'm really angry at those who have posted "but it's just a dog that he's attacked". My dog was attacked a couple of years ago, horrific injuries, completely unprovoked. I was walking my boy (on lead) and the attacking dog broke down a 5 foot fence panel to attack mine.

I am lucky - my dog survived after a month of daily vet treatment and a cost (self funded) of over £3000. My dog is pretty Ok. I am not. I am now terribly afraid. I never ever want to experience something so horrific again. I am not exaggerating - police who attended wearing bodycams said they were traumatised themselves.

Please - your beloved dog hates other dogs and it's rotten and terrible but simply not fair on other dogs. I am so sorry, but I have to vote for let him go.

@lyralalala thank you so much and you are completely right and it is my responsibility. DHs too, but really mine since the dog seems to think he's my dog... And it is my responsibility that he has been able to do this 6 times and has had six chances and I know its too many and those poor people and their poor dogs. I think about one of the owners a lot because I don't think she will ever get over her dog being attacked. That was a time he escaped so he literally came out of nowhere. It was lucky I was just getting home from work and I literally abandoned my car in the middle of the road to stop it. No one in the house had realised the dog had escaped!

@User2378901 you are right, he won't know anything it's really just for us (me really and selfishly) that I am probably even debating it. I know what advice I would be giving if anyone else was in this situation

@noidontwatchloveisland thank you so much, its selfish though because he really is my best friend. Even though he never answers when I talk to him and actually I think he rolls his eyes at me a lot!

@VinylDetective thank you, that pretty much sums up how I feel. I will try everything but I don't think anything will work, I believe I'm delaying an inevitable. But I really want to delay because its too hard not to.

@Daisysflowers yes, definitely. When I spoke to the daughter of the dog owner yesterday I couldn't bring myself to tell her that this was the sixth time. I just said it had happened before because I was too ashamed and guilty to say how many times. And yes I do know, it's just so devestating, but I really appreciate you saying it. I think I need to hear its the right thing because I feel horrible.

@CakeRequired thank you so much. I love my dog but he did come with so many issues. If I was told about his issues in the first place I would have been more cautious about offering to home him but once he was here it was like he had always been here and I thought we could help. We clearly didn't though which is so sad... I definitely think you're right though and there's some cognitive decline too :(

Its the fact that he is escalating within the house that would sway me towards putting to sleep. The defensiveness and possessiveness of you in particular. Bad enough that he nearly came at your DH but what if it were one of the children and what if it wasn't 'nearly?'

I love my dogs. They're my best friends and I would give them chance after chance and actually one of them is dog aggressive towards other males. Its hard enough managing him out of the house, I couldn't do it at home too. I honestly don't see that you can do any more.

I hardly ever say pts. I like dogs better than most people. But in your situation I would do it. I would have to. I'd never forgive myself if he hurt someone because I couldn't let him go.

I really feel for you because this is just a devastating position to be in, its a no win situation and the fact that you're making the right decision is pretty cold comfort. I love my pets but they break your heart when they go.

My aunt is a trainer, she deals with a lot of aggressive dogs. She just read your thread, shook her head and said she thinks from what you've said here there's no training that out of him and from the way his behaviour is escalating she thinks it will eventually extend to basically everyone who isn't you.

She said tell you not to feel guilty, as owners we have a duty to be responsible for our animals and you've done a damn lot more than some owners she works with and that some damage just can't be undone no matter how much you love them and how much money and specialist help you throw at them.