Snobbery

[ShrikeAttack]

So much, and all pointless.

I've just come from a thread about garden furniture. Do people really care about other's garden furniture?

Is it not just a manifestation of your own insecurity? There are many, many things I wouldn't choose, because I don't like them, for whatever reason. But to not choose them because you consider them beneath you?

How utterly dreadful. How utterly small of you to judge somebody because of their choice of garden furniture, or their sofa or plates.

Why do you care so much?

Because you use micro-signifiers to reassure yourself that you're better. That you've come far.

There's a huge amount of bollox on MN about class, it's almost an obsession.

Many of you have been sold a pup. It's not really about class, it's about confidence. There are plenty of 'working class' people who have done well for themselves, and feel very happy and confident about it.

I think after WW1, and WW2, followed by huge death taxes on estates there became a huge mass of UC folks who became the mental custodians of a life that no longer existed. And thus the 'genteel poverty' idea came to be something to aspire to.

The majority of these people actually came from 'new money" though. There are very few true 'old money' families still extant today.

Look at the National Trust houses that the 'Middle Class' like to visit. Full of guilding, marble, gold, plunder and excess.

The wannabe Middle-class seem to want to be the disenfranchised upper-class.

The new upper-class are actually the tech lords.

I guess my AIBU is, why do people think they are better just because they cling on to a mad idea of what is good, or classy, or right?

Agreed. I'm Northern so I call my main evening meal tea and my Southern sil calls it supper. I can see her visibly cringe when I say tea so I make sure I say it often in front of her in my best OTT Northern accent 'come on kids teeeeee tiiiiime!'

Best not say you've got a white front door. It'd be better to admit you're a mass murderer.

Also I can’t help but feel a lot of the class obsessed snobby MNers, also seem to raise the bar for working class people and are adamant you can’t change, become mc so easily

For example a previous thread saying Doctors can’t be middle class if their parents were wc. I understand class is more than just money e.g., cultural capital etc... but just because someone grew up poor/WC doesn’t mean they can’t go on to develop “refined” tastes

Also funny how when rich/posh people copy working class trends (e.g., rising popularity of sports streetwear) - that’s okay, no longer seen as tacky, they’re still middle class.
Whereas I’m sure some may have criticised such trends before enough middle class people did the same

@iklboo I've got a white front door and Yankee candles I got for Christmas in my favourite fragrance. Also got matching towels and a John Lewis duvet set & mismatched crockery! What does that make me?

I always find on Mumsnet if you earn over 100k you are a liar which is odd.

• I earn good money, my garden furniture is crap 😂😂

The greatest micro-signifier for class snobbery is name dropping mutual friends, which is obviously not possible on MN. In every single casual meeting amongst "wealthier" people, the first 20mins of conversation are solely dedicated to finding out which friends they had in common, which schools they went to, which companies they worked at, which mutual colleagues they know, or who happens to know the sibling of another person with the same surname etc. Once sufficient connections have been established, then a person is accepted into the group and all other signifiers like furniture, clothing, accent aren't really relevant anymore.

YANBU OP

I find snobbery is often more a trait of the wannabee middle classes or the 'moving classes', who are desperate to show or pretend they've moved 'up' from working class.

Over the last 20 years I've worked with countless middle class people who were raised from a long line of middle class family.

And the vast majority of them would consider it ill-mannered and vulgar to openly criticise the decor or lifestyles of others.

@Clicketyclick21 - it makes you bloody great

I'm from a working class background, but I suppose I'd now be called middle class. Why do you hate me? I don't care what furniture you've got in your garden.

We all judge, we're all snobs in one way or another, why pretend otherwise?

The only way in which we differ is the things we prioritise as nice to have or being in 'good taste.'
For example, amongst my colleagues it is popular to drive SUVs on PCP finance, they openly look down on my ten year old MPV 'mum wagon
I secretly abhor their MK and Love Moschino handbags, I would not be seen dead with a synthetic or saffiano leather monstrosity. They would never drive an older vehicle.

We both think we have superior taste.
They are mistaken, of course

I find snobbery quiet distasteful!
Most people with substantial amount of money are quiet about it and don’t brag !
I hate all this class nonsense! (I’m working class )
I don’t look down on anyone !!
I don’t judge anything either I go by how people treat me morals and integrity!!
And I don’t eat before 6pm 😂😂😂 xxx

I sometimes have the guilty pleasure watching Couples/Come Dine With Me when I'm preparing meals and then you see class divides there and some contestants who are snobs mentioning they won't hang out with them or they are not their type of people they will hang out with but when you look at the miserable bastards and think 🤔 who the fuck would want to hang out with you anyway? Do they really have friends in real life? Every conversation is about testing people's knowledge about what is acceptable and what isn't according to them and they just give that funny glare to their partner who is equally the same drip as them. I just find it utterly bizarre that the types that linger around on MN and on TV/RL have time for this nonsense to lecture people about what's acceptable. Are they that miserable in life to have time to judge people about garden furniture or what time they eat dinner whether it's late or early?

I live in area full them and during the first lockdown, a woman held me hostage in a isle in the local mini supermarket when there were one way systems. She spent ages in that isle taking her sweet time where I couldn't reverse and was stuck there waiting for her to move so I can pay for my basket as the checkout was at the end of the isle. She saw me and took even longer which if it was me, I would hurry and move. I thought fuck this, I have a basket full of heavy items and I'm waiting for her who is taking this much time where she is touching every item of the same product. As I attempted to move past her, she shouted at me saying she's not finished and doesn't want my germs near her. I responded back and said excuse me, your germs aren't exactly friendly are they plus I'm wearing a mask which protects people and you're not. She was taking her time to deliberately have a go at people because their germs are more superior than other people's.

Totally. There’s a social code I don’t understand. When my first child was born I joined the NCT. I’d never heard of it before, accidental pregnancy in my 20s WC background, MC husband. Other mums 30/40s with the same bags/buggies/accessories. I didn’t have a clue how you’d know what to buy, it was like being a member of a club. Same with home decor. I’m clueless and just like what I like. I don’t like the plastic outdoor sofas, but not due to snobbery. But some things I like are ridiculed on here but can be found in designer fashion or top end decor. I don’t understand.

Mumsnet is like the Daily Mail. Only it’s not that everything will give you “Cancer”. It’s everything will give you “Chav”.

The dog snobbery is weirdly real. I was out with my small breed dog and got chatting to a woman in the park who had two labradors

She was trying to be sniffy about my dog "Gosh they're so common now aren't they/these designer dogs are just everywhere now"

I just said very dead pan "he's a rescue, was tied to a railing in the town centre"

She couldn't get away quick enough

It was really clear she needed someone to look down on

Shasta you don't understand it as there IS no code. Who makes the rules? It's all made up bollocks that people would have you believe to make themselves feel more "upper class" than others. Somethings I like are cheap shops or even free cycle, some more expensive...if I like it, I like it and buy it.

littlepattilou
Yes I agree with you, I cringe at these braggy threads. I try not to read them as I feel down about my min wage job.

My grandad always used to say to me: be careful who’s arse you’re kicking on the way up, because you might need to kiss them on the way down’.

I work in healthcare on minimum wage (a healthcare assistant; essentially personal care, toilet cleaning etc). I am looked on by some of my clients that live in huge houses and have lots of money like I’m trash, like they can speak to me as if I’m below them. I don’t react, I smile, I brush it off and I move on. And it’s why I make sure I talk to my postie, my bin men, the lady that gives us our McDonald’s at the window... because no one is beneath me, and I’m not beneath anyone else. Finances, however secure something thinks they are, can be precarious- being a good person, caring, enjoying life (I know that’s hard at the moment), supporting your friends and family, spreading smiles and happiness. These are my goals. Just my 2c.

@Jakarta

The class obsession on here, usually veiled thinly as moral superiority, is what drives me to take breaks from time to time. I don't understand where it comes from. I've never seen it among groups of women in real life.

I hate how judgemental some MNers can be, why do they have to unnecessarily bring class in to so many things?

I remember a thread about dog breeds, describing some dogs as too ‘common’

If you don’t like something that’s fine, but I find it pretty hurtful when people have to then say bs like it’s common/tacky/nouveau rich to do or have ‘x’

They do that with childrens names too. Call some of them chavvy or lower class. I have seen some vile threads on here about childrens names. And also some vile threads about certain areas. It's OK to say they don't fancy the area or 'that house' if someone asks an opinion on a house for sale, and posts a link, but to start a thread saying 'which area in the UK is the shittiest?' and 'which childrens names are OK and which are lower class/chavvy?' is just fucking nasty.

Yup!

@wetwiped there shouldn’t be a code but some people create them and it does impact those who don’t get it. Such as WC kids who don’t know how to behave (etiquette) during dinners with senior management or clients. People use the social codes to keep outsiders out. It doesn’t matter if you are the most talented or intelligent employee. You won’t succeed if you don’t adapt and wear the right suits etc.

@Freetigerking

littlepattilou Yes I agree with you, I cringe at these braggy threads. I try not to read them as I feel down about my min wage job.

Just remember, at LEAST 90% of the bragfests on here are bullshit.

Also, less than 5% of the UK working population earn £100K per year or more, so it's impossible for everyone on here who claims they earns that (or their DH does) to be true.

for you.

@aloetia

I sometimes have the guilty pleasure watching Couples/Come Dine With Me when I'm preparing meals and then you see class divides there and some contestants who are snobs mentioning they won't hang out with them or they are not their type of people they will hang out with but when you look at the miserable bastards and think 🤔 who the fuck would want to hang out with you anyway? Do they really have friends in real life? Every conversation is about testing people's knowledge about what is acceptable and what isn't according to them and they just give that funny glare to their partner who is equally the same drip as them. I just find it utterly bizarre that the types that linger around on MN and on TV/RL have time for this nonsense to lecture people about what's acceptable. Are they that miserable in life to have time to judge people about garden furniture or what time they eat dinner whether it's late or early?

I live in area full them and during the first lockdown, a woman held me hostage in a isle in the local mini supermarket when there were one way systems. She spent ages in that isle taking her sweet time where I couldn't reverse and was stuck there waiting for her to move so I can pay for my basket as the checkout was at the end of the isle. She saw me and took even longer which if it was me, I would hurry and move. I thought fuck this, I have a basket full of heavy items and I'm waiting for her who is taking this much time where she is touching every item of the same product. As I attempted to move past her, she shouted at me saying she's not finished and doesn't want my germs near her. I responded back and said excuse me, your germs aren't exactly friendly are they plus I'm wearing a mask which protects people and you're not. She was taking her time to deliberately have a go at people because their germs are more superior than other people's.

Yet surely there’s nothing more “common” than appearing on a reality programme - even ironically

There's a huge amount of bollox on MN about class, it's almost an obsession

^^ Bizarre, isn't it. I haven't ever come across it in real life, or on any other social media platforms or forums.

@CakeRequired

I don't believe half the crap I see on here. It's bullshit. If anyone actually tries to say they work a 9-5 job only and earn 100k plus, they are lying. No job at that level means you work a short number of hours, you are essentially on call permanently. Your contract says 9-5, you don't work that. grin I know people at that level, they work many more hours on top of that, including weekends. Plus it's amazing how many of these people also spend all day on mumsnet. Yes I so believe you.

Yeah this 100 And despite several posters saying people on believable normal salaries are jealous or resentful of 'high-earners.' What a load of bollocks. We mock and deride because we know at least 90% of the people on here claiming to earn £100K a year or more are bullshitting!

And yeah, it's hilarious how they claim they have these high-flying, highly paid careers; yet they're always on mumsnet!

@FitzsimmonsMarvel

my DH earns 100k and works 9-5.30 Monday to Friday. He’s a director at an economic consultancy. My BIL is a director of a hedge fund. He earns €130k and works late during his busy season (Jan-April) but works 9-6 otherwise. Neither work on weekends. My SIL is a director at one of the big 4 accounts that firms. She earns 120k and works every hour under the sun.

I find it odd that just because you aren’t aware of something you decide it doesn’t exist and is bullshit. Maybe trying to make yourself feel better than if someone earns 100k plus they have etc to have sold their soul to the devil and work all hours.

So you say your DH earns £100K a year but only works 9-5.30 (in answer to someone who said anyone who earns £100K works all the hours God sends, and couldn't work normal 9-5.30 hours,)

In the next breath you say people who earn £100K a year have to sell their soul to the devil and work ALL hours...

So which is is? You probably need to get your 'facts' straight before posting in future.

Also, it's funny how these very high paid jobs are always in finance or consultancy or sales. They are the go-to 'careers' for the 'high salaries fantasists.'

Like many others on this thread, I NEVER meet people like these mumsnet 'high-earning,' faux-middle-class fantasists in real life. Thank God!