Snobbery

[ShrikeAttack]

So much, and all pointless.

I've just come from a thread about garden furniture. Do people really care about other's garden furniture?

Is it not just a manifestation of your own insecurity? There are many, many things I wouldn't choose, because I don't like them, for whatever reason. But to not choose them because you consider them beneath you?

How utterly dreadful. How utterly small of you to judge somebody because of their choice of garden furniture, or their sofa or plates.

Why do you care so much?

Because you use micro-signifiers to reassure yourself that you're better. That you've come far.

There's a huge amount of bollox on MN about class, it's almost an obsession.

Many of you have been sold a pup. It's not really about class, it's about confidence. There are plenty of 'working class' people who have done well for themselves, and feel very happy and confident about it.

I think after WW1, and WW2, followed by huge death taxes on estates there became a huge mass of UC folks who became the mental custodians of a life that no longer existed. And thus the 'genteel poverty' idea came to be something to aspire to.

The majority of these people actually came from 'new money" though. There are very few true 'old money' families still extant today.

Look at the National Trust houses that the 'Middle Class' like to visit. Full of guilding, marble, gold, plunder and excess.

The wannabe Middle-class seem to want to be the disenfranchised upper-class.

The new upper-class are actually the tech lords.

I guess my AIBU is, why do people think they are better just because they cling on to a mad idea of what is good, or classy, or right?

I live in a rather unaffluent part of Yorkshire, and while I don't know what my friends earn as we don't discuss money, none of them have the kind of jobs that attract a 6 figure salary. Plus we all work part time.

I have no idea what the CEO of where I work earns. It may well be 6 figures, but I don't count him as being in my circle. I have never even spoken to him.

I think that's an insecurity on their part @Ginfordinner.

I don't even believe it. I know people across the spectrum.

From people that went to Winchester, Eton, Cheltenham Ladies, and Ampleforth and Bedales to decent Grammars and excellent state schools, and rubbish state schools.

I know people from everywhere. I move in all kinds of circles. And they all exist.

I'm always amazed that people can't see beyond a very small circle.

And I'm always amazed that people judge so hard. The majority of people I know aren't terrible. They aren't dreadful. They're just people that live in very small circles.

And feel annoyance. Because they're not that bright.

Is it not just a manifestation of your own insecurity?

Yep!

They obviously have never watched Keeping Up Appearances and so have no idea how ridiculous they sound. There are lots of Hyacinths on the garden furniture thread!

My bil is a right snob except he was brought up on a rough council estate. Went to uni, did well career wise & married a mc girl. He couldn't get rid of his accent fast enough, changed his social life to match his in laws. You'd think that he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth with his plummy accent. He is such a mc cliche now with a pony and private education for the kids. Plus he's a bellemd and a snob.

@Ginfordinner

I posted on one of those threads saying that I didn't personally know anyone on a 6 figure salary, and they didn't believe me.

How bizarre! But even in London/around the outskirts of London, the vast majority of people don't earn £100,000 a year. Many don't earn half that. (In fact, many people on here who claim they £100,000 a year don't earn that!)

I live in a rural village with a middle class demographic, some working class and some upper, but generally a middle class demographic. There are quite a number of 'professionals'... 2 teachers, 3 police officers (including a detective,) a headteacher, 3 doctors, (including the head of the surgery in the local town,) 2 solicitors, a dentist, an optician, a reverend and a vicar, an architect, and a bank manager...

All middle class, and all live in nice rural cottages, or big detached homes, and they have nice lifestyles and a nice car. Not ONE of these people is on £100,000 a year. Several are on £60,000 to £70,000, but the majority are on £50,000 or less. And yes, I DO know how much these people earn. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find out.

The reason none of them are on £100,000 a year or more, is probably because only 5% of the working population of the UK is on that much.

Funny then, how a HIGH amount of posters on mumsnet are on £100,000 a year or more.

Oddly, most of them rarely say what they actually do, or just say 'consultancy' with lots of big bonuses and perks (incl a £10,000 bonus at Christmas.) Or 'sales.' They are rarely specific.

Another thing is, they ALWAYS have a university degree, and it's ALWAYS from one of the red-brick universities. And their kids ALWAYS seem to go to private school.

Fantasists most of them. For sure.

People who went to Eton, Ampleforth etc just wouldn't choose to live round here @ShrikeAttack. I know people who went to Oxbridge or are there now, but apart from head teacher, dentist, vet or hospital consultant the really high earning job opportunities are not round here.

When I say I don't know 6 figure earners I am saying that none of my friends earn that much, not a random hospital consultant that I may have seen once or twice.

All the snobby individuals I have had the misfortune to meet in my life have received my pity although they were not aware of it.
I find it amusing also when listening to boasts of this and that which they can afford and others can not. One of the memorable ones was an idiot of a woman (a mere acquaintance) who told me she had just spent £1200 on bed linen from the John Lewis store. I did not even feign being impressed. I just smiled and said "how nice."

I mean, it's twattish but I really couldn't give a shit that much.

You’ve got to take the threads for what they are - pure, unintentional entertainment.

One of the unintentionally funniest threads in recent memory, was the one about using teachers’ first names or title + surname. It was gold.

Class is one of those things that people don’t really actually talk about in real life, but do enjoy dissecting on an anonymous forum.

I will conclude though - we all judge. Every last one of us. And for some things we downright know are ridiculous. Anyone who says they pass though life without judging anyone or anything is lying through their teeth. The thing is, most judging is silent, within one’s own head. Mumsnet has just enabled us to vocalise thoughts probably best kept to ourselves.

Where is this furniture thread?!

@StillCoughingandLaughing
It's on AIBU, it's hilarious the OP describing rattan furniture as "vulgar and showy offy" oh and how she despises this type of furniture.

Thread about a thread fgs YABU

🎶 She gets too hungry, for dinner at eight .. that’s why the lady is a tramp 🎶

And thus the 'genteel poverty' idea came to be something to aspire to.

Namechanged for this because I'm about to speak my truth 😁

This. I am as working class as they come, had a baby at 17 and then my mum ended up having a baby two years later.

I'd given my pram away to someone who needed it, but we decided to get a second hand double buggy for the odd weekend day out etc.

Found one on gumtree (with a stock photo). Went to the house. The BIGGEST mansion I've ever seen in my life. When we actually saw the double buggy, it was filthy, covered in mud and mould and the fuckers wanted £100 pound for it.

I'd just donated my £450 pram for free, because ime that's honestly what working class people in my area tended to do.

My mum also spoke about this all the time. We lived in a pretty deprived area but she worked in a nursery in the "posh" part of town. Dad a solicitor, Mum a consultant type of place. And she said it sometimes felt like a competition for who could produce the most homeless looking child in the morning.

Third hand Boden clothes with holes in the knees. Ratty unbrushed hair. Dirty fingernails etc. And yet the kids in my children's school are always spotless and wearing new (albeit Asda) clothes.

I honestly don't even think it's about salary. I don't mind the "how much do you earn" threads at all. I earn six figures a year now because I started my own business. I still live in the same place, and I'd still give my pram away to a single mum who needed it.

It's not salary that defines your class. People who come from money, who have money, are obsessed with looking and acting like they DONT have money.

Because looking and acting like they have money is something working class people do - so they sell their shitty mouldy prams on gumtree and dress their children like vagabonds.

It's comfortable working class people who have a hot tub or a rattan bloody furniture set in the back garden. It's working class people who have an audi on the drive and not a 13 year old shitter. Who save to buy their kids nice trainers, and splurge on an MK handbag.

That's my experience of it anyway, and I feel like I live in an area where people are either VERY working class, or VERY upper class aka the genteel poverty types.

And 'small gardens' with furniture 'crammed in.

Why would you even care what the fuck someone does with their small garden?

There have been lots of these types of threads recently, far more than normal, I sometimes think the posters don’t actually hate these things at all, they probably covet them, can’t afford them, so they lash out and start a thread knowing they will find like minded people, the responses in virulent agreement with them make them feel better about themselves and their situation and at the same time they hope it makes others feel bad about their design choices, like you say insecurity.

I surely cant be the only person who hasnt the faintest idea how much my friends (or their DHs) or even my family earn

I find it hard to understand how you couldn't know enough to make an educated guess tbh.

I have the odd cousin who works vaguely in 'IT' or 'consultancy' that are harder to place...but even then their lifestyle gives me a decent enough picture to make a ball park stab at their income.

For most though I'm pretty confident I could get close if guessing as I know the job, employer, area and hours of my friends and family. I'm talking nurses, accountants, a dentist, a couple in retail, a GPs receptionist, a night shift factory worker, someone high up in the Council.

I do a fair bit of casual job hunting though, just to keep abreast of what's about...but I wouldn't have thought it that difficult to place the vast majority of jobs!

@Walkacrossthesand

Those who matter, don't mind; those who mind, don't matter.

Absolutely

@OnYourWayOut, I hate the middle-classes so much I can't have much to with them. I lived in a town that is the apogee if MC, it was embarrassing for everyone that lived there. For shame.

Yes, this really annoys me. I’m not the typical mumsnet user (teen mum, council flat etc) and I honestly feel rubbish after reading some threads on here.

Personally I think some people are missing Jeremy Kyle... the show every one watched so they could look down on someone else and feel superior. So now they come on MN instead and start threads😂

I was born into a mc family. Am now wc. What people earn or have in the bank means absolutely nothing to me - all a complete load of BS.
Although I'm not keen on certain types of garden furniture

And 'only the lower classes' say 'tea' for the evening meal.

I am fairly sure DS is a hobbit, who would happily have high tea, tea, dinner and supper.

I am not even going to get into his morning and afternoon meals

@PeanutButtaCups i’m the same. i had my son very young, live on a council estate, and my family are as working class as they come. i take everything people say on here with a giant pinch of salt! some people use mumsnet as their own little fantasy world where they’re the lady of the manor coming to dole out advice to the peasants.

A few years ago there was a thread with a title along the lines of "What trivial things do you judge people for?". Page after page of people adamant that they never judged anyone for house decoration, house size, job, loo brush, cutlery, meal times etc. After all, life was too short.

That thread vied for top spot on the active threads list with another thread, about which room people keep their fruit bowls in. The fruit bowl thread quickly descended into a bitter argument about class.