Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that people shouldn't have children if they can't afford them?

203 replies

ideamummy · 30/10/2007 14:44

I ask this as I'm dealing with a case at the moment of a woman who for various reasons is being charged for her health treatment. She is 21 and on her third pregnancy, she has no employment, no means of supporting these children and yet seemingly does not use contraception. It makes me so mad. We've waited three and a half years to have a second child because before that we just couldn't afford it. Why do some people think it's okay to have kids with no means to support them?

OP posts:
themildmanneredaxemurderer · 30/10/2007 17:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

snickersyum · 30/10/2007 17:26

Both my own and my DH's parents have always been workers, real grafters. We both have real pride in our parents and what they have acheived - mortgages, own cars etc.

We all had some hard times and money was tight at times, but I had such a great childhood and my parents gave me and my bro all they could. The point of this snippet of family history is that we grew up assuming we would have to work hard to get what and where we want and as a result, me and DH are proud of what we have so far acheived and are striving for our house in the country! Its this work ethic and pride that is sometimes missing.

Peoples circumstances do change and divorce/redundancy etc can have a devastating effect on finances and independence I don't think anyone has a problem with people turning to this state in such circumstances as that is what benefits are for.

The people who have child after child when they have no intention of ever providing for them by working are the people who frustrate those of us who do work hard.

FrightOwl · 30/10/2007 17:57

have we established whether the woman referred to in the original post is a single mum?

there seems no mention of a father here?

expatinscotland · 30/10/2007 20:24

'Oh, Gordon, are you listening?!?!?! '

That's the funniest thing I've read all day.

derahCula · 30/10/2007 20:32

I would say (and I think this is what the OP was trying to get across - apologies if not).....

if you are on welfare and having a baby would means you would need even more benefits

or if having a baby would mean you need to go on welfare

or if you personally (or family etc) would not be paying for this baby's upbringing....

then it's wrong and selfish to deliberately get pregnant.

Of course accidents happen and circumstances change. That's what the welfare system is supposed to be for. But thinking "oh, it's OK if I have another kid, the government will pay for it" is selfish and wrong.

stripeymama · 30/10/2007 20:36

Oh for fuck sake.

Sorry but honestly.

I am a single parent on benefits and I see no shame in that. It was not my intention to end up unsupported by dd's father and there's not much I could have done to stop that happening. My dd needs me at home.

And may I point out that I would recieve more money in in-work benefits (WTC/CCTC etc) than I do currently. So I actually cost the taxpayer less by staying at home and bringing up my child myself.

FrightOwl · 30/10/2007 20:37

i dont think we know enough to judge tbh.

ImBarryScott · 30/10/2007 20:46

the benefit system is an important safety net for people. most people on benefits never planned to live that way.
life on benefits is hard. and social housing can be crap.

so I'm far from envious of anyone in that position.

I am sad that my dd will probably be an only child because even with me and DH both working, we cannot afford more than 2 bedrooms. But I wouldn't swap with those on benefits for the world.

expatinscotland · 30/10/2007 21:02

2 bedrooms in plenty, though, barry.

there's no rule that says children must have their own room.

FrightOwl · 30/10/2007 21:07

i want to know why the emphasis is always on mums. why do we not hear of plans to boot the father back into work? why is it ok for certain men (and im not saying all of course) to walk away without a second glance? takes two to tango as they say.

ImBarryScott · 30/10/2007 21:07

I know expat, we're better off than many.
it's just that my sister now has DS (10) and DD (9) still sharing a room, and it's tricker for them to get privacy now they're bigger.

spookykitty · 30/10/2007 21:08

I agree expat, when I was pregnant last time (mc) one of the first things people said was "wheres it going to sleep" "you will have to move house" I have a 3 bed house, DDs will share and any DB will have the box room. One day in the distant future we may move or build an extension but thats years away.

Why do people think one child = one bedroom especially people like my Mum who shared a bedroom with 4 sisters, that was it boys in one room girls in another (if you were lucky)? My friend said she loved late night chats with her sisters.

expatinscotland · 30/10/2007 21:11

my dad also shared a room with his brother and two sisters.

they put a sheet down the middle.

but they all became responsible, lovely adults.

ImBarryScott · 30/10/2007 21:12

spooky - my dd is in the box room! we have a small 2 bed flat - our room is the double.

stripeymama · 30/10/2007 21:17

FrightOwl - that always seems unfair to me too. I have a child to look after single-handed. Exp has no job.

Why should I be the one who is told to go out to work?

expatinscotland · 30/10/2007 21:29

i've been banging on about how single MOTHERS are scapegoated for years on here!

i find that disgusting.

i truly do.

stripeymama · 30/10/2007 21:35

I have been banging on about it too, it is soooooo crap. Single mothers are the ones who stayed to do their very best for their children. Absent fathers in far too many cases get away with contributing FA, financial or practical. Its deeply unfair to demonise single mothers and force them into work.

FrightOwl · 30/10/2007 21:35

oh im always banging on about single mums, benefits etc expat, have bumped into you on many a thread

im actually bored with my own opinions

tiredofarguing · 30/10/2007 21:38

Unfortunately it's human nature that some people would abuse a system intended for those who find themselves in dire straits.

I think most, if not all posters on this thread agree - it's not simply about living on benefits (as it's been said, life circumstances can change), rather those who abuse/misuse the system.

What can be done about it? Dunno... IMO though I'm careful not to point the finger as 5 more could be pointing back at me, cos I eat crap food and could end up costing the NHS money...

OozingSlashesFromTigerFeet · 30/10/2007 21:46

I am finding this thread really upsetting

Not at all sure why

Just touching a nerve I guess

expatinscotland · 30/10/2007 21:52

it's about choices, though.

and chances are, a person on benefits with tons of kids is going to live in an area where me or you or someone else may not chose to live.

that's the tradeoff they made that enables them to have more children, whereas someone else makes the trade off to own their own place in the country, in a neighbourhood they want to be in, near their job, etc.

most people wind up on benefits unintentionally, however, just to keep that in mind.

expatinscotland · 30/10/2007 21:57

also many people on benefits don't have cars, take holidays, etc.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 30/10/2007 22:09

This sort of discussion is bound to go round and round heading nowhere as there is no answer. I have only skimmed the thread so no doubt I am repeating a dozen other posters opinions.

Wouldn't it be marvellous if everyone had 'enough' money, no one was abused or abandoned by their family, no one had more than two children ( as that is the environmentally sound thing to do), everyone recycled and no one drank to much or fed their children fast food?

Well yes but it is not going to happen, people have free will and sometimes they use that free will to do things that I don't agree with and as aggrieved as I am that not everyone is as sane and 'reasonable' as I - I have too bloody well get over it and you know soldier on!

Yes it is terrible that teens on shitey housing estates think it is ok to have 4 kids and live off the social but - they are not having a wonderful life - ffs it is grim and there but for the grace of Dawkins go I etc. so by all means tut and judge - I am very happy I am not in that situation and very glad my children are going to have all the benefits of being nice and middle class.

These economically inactive 'irresponsible women' are judged for having too many kids but they could in different circumstances be judged for having too many abortions instead Sometimes people are judged simply for existing.

Shoelacetripper · 30/10/2007 22:09

It's perfectly reasonable to think it, but not reasonable to legislate for it. Poverty strips away choice, and for some people there is in reality little choice in the way they live their lives, despite what moral choices others want to make for them.

So yes, get cross. And then bite your lip unless you're certain your own life is completely exemplary.

expatinscotland · 30/10/2007 22:11

great post, bigmouth!