to think that nowadays it's usually the woman who proposes...

[Radziwill]

...and there should be more honesty about that fact?

On various message boards, I've noticed women saying that they want to get married but don't want to ask. They seem to think it's desperate or pathetic for a woman to propose.

But off the top of my head, I can think of at least three women I know who asked their partner to stage a proposal. They all posted news of their engagements on social media, portraying it as a romantic surprise, when in practical terms they had been the ones to propose. If you ask your partner for a proposal, you are asking him to marry you. Therefore, you are proposing to him!

I also suspect that when couples say that they "just decided" to get married, it's generally code for "she asked". Surely someone must have proposed! They can't have simultaneously said "Shall we get married?" or "Shall we book the venue?"

I hate the fact that even in the 2020s, female socialisation is still so bound up in passivity. Why is it considered domineering if a woman doesn't wait for a man to make decisions about their future? Lesbian couples would never get married if neither of them wanted to propose because they're both women!

There should be less pressure on women to act coy and pretend that all the big decisions were first suggested by the man.

Most women I know who are married received a traditional proposal. I know one or two who proposed.

I asked him. It wasn't a big proposal though, I just told him last Christmas day that it was time we got engaged so we did. When we do get around to getting married it won't be a big deal just a little party. I don't have a ring and nor do I particularly want one.

I sent a text to now-DH saying 'Are we going to get married or what?' He said something like 'I suppose so.' So we did! Romance is not dead in our house!

I refused the first three times DH proposed, and only eventually agreed because it meant so much to him. To be honest, while I know several women who have been the one to propose in heterosexual relationships, I’ve only ever come across the extremely weird and coy ‘asking the man to stage a proposal’ thing on here.

Tricky to vote as you ask so many different questions in your Opening Post, so I voted on the title. I don't think it is "usually" the woman who proposes, though I do agree with some of what you say in your OP.

I’m one of the people who’d say “we decided to get married”, by that I mean no one planned a proposal or specifically asked the other one. I suppose one of us said it first but I couldn’t say who, we were discussing things given that I was pregnant and we were buying a house and it just led to a decision that we’d probably be better off getting married and we’ll book the registry office now. We’re not the most romantic of people and so it wasn’t really a romantic decision, just a practical one.
Most of the couples I know have discussed marriage and have a plan for when they’ll get engaged (and by that I assume they mean a time that a ring will be bought and specific wedding plans will be made).

I wouldn't say either of us proposed as such. There were lots of "should we get married?" discussions and then a couple of "when should we get married? conversations. And then Covid, so not actually married yet. I would consider that to be we just decided, I suppose. I think that's what often happens, really, and then there's a "proposal" with a ring after the fact.

I told him to get on with a proposal because he kept talking about hypothetical marriage and I was irritated with the continual 'when we get married'. He wanted to actually propose though. It was just a conversation where I agreed and we announced.

We went and picked a ring about a week later and once we'd left the shop, he went down on one knee to confirm with the ring.

I completely agree. It's ridiculous to expect a woman to meekly wait and have very little control over such a big life decision.

We got married in August during a slight relaxation of the Covid rules on the original date. Very lucky.

I've been married twice. The first time it was what you suggest and the impetus for the engagement came from me. He did 'propose' and bought me a ring but it wasn't a great surprise as we had already agreed to marry.

The second time it was a total surprise as I had always said I wasn't sure I wanted to get married again. It was the full hoopla with a down on one knee, ring in a box and all that. It was lovely.

But most people I know are like my first engagement. I actually don't know many people who had a genuine surprise proposal without prior agreement to get married.

No fucking way would I propose! He either wants it or he doesnt. I dont know why I feel this way about this though, since I make most of the money, I would never let a guy pay on a date, that sort of thing.

However there are two things I think men should do: DIY and proposing

Late DH asked me quite a few times, I always said no I didn't want to get married again.
Then I changed my mind, so I asked him.

Three women you know of proposes first and this leads you to think this is the trend for all couples? Some fuzzy logic right there.

We used to have lots of 'should we get married' and 'how should we do it' discussions. We were looking at different venues and couldnt decide what we wanted and it always seemed a lot of money. We couldnt decide where and then one day we were on a walk and talking about a long haul special holiday and I said 'how about we get married while we're there' and he said 'good idea, lets look into it' or similar...I'm not sure if I'd class that as a proper proposal? I researched it and then we both agreed we were happy with it. I guess I pushed for it more than him though

I only know one woman who proposed (in a same sex relationship).
Maybe it’s a generation thing?
I was given the traditional proposal (over dinner etc) and I actually thought he was trying to break it off. That was 11 years ago though and I was mid thirties so I reckon more women do it now.
I’m not sure what I prefer.
To be fair if he hadn’t proposed I’d probably be off elsewhere by now.

On Mumsnet, a couple mutually decides they’ll get married, this is called “getting engaged” and then they book a ceremony at the register office the following week. The bride wears a bin bag, the ring is an old tin can and they invite no one to watch as they have no friends cos friends are tacky and spending anything more than the £2 on the roll of bin bags for the bride is an ostentatious waste of money.

In real life, everyone I know had several conversations over a few years about marriage / babies etc etc and knew they were on the same page and would get married one day but then the men proposed and that is named the engagement

I don’t know any women who asked. I honestly think still that if men want to marry you they will ask be that a grand proposal or a hey so??? Conversation.

Ours went a bit like this.

Dh “you know we are going to get married right?”
Me “uh yeah ok”
Dh “so pick a ring”

So I picked a ring and he then ordered it and then jokingly asked me to marry him as it was already agreed upon anyway.

I proposed and got down on one knee.
I'm all for equality and it was time I put my money where my mouth is

You may know three, personally I don't know any.

Do you mean counting conversations about getting married as the proposal? So my DH and I discussed getting married one day, if I brought it up then I'm the one who proposed?

Maybe so, but he still planned the surprise and got a ring and all that, like every couple I know. I don't know anyone who did the 'mutual agreement' or woman proposing. I'm not saying women shouldn't propose but no, I don't think it is the norm.

I actually married for love and not a transaction. I was young. I said yes. The man still loves me. He does dishes, he looks after the kids, believe it or not he doesnt just want his clothes washing and dinner cooking! He has feelings and needs! Not just a vagina and a housekeeper!

I proposed, but not in the passive way you suggest, I literally proposed. DH said yes, and that was that. We failed to have any practical discussions or proper understanding of what was what about marriage. It only lasted 20 years, so more fool me, I suppose.

I don’t know if it’s proposing as much as having an open conversation (well conversations really) about commitment, settling down and ensuring your expectations align as partners? Everyone should be able to talk openly about that sort of thing with their significant other, rather than just quietly hoping he reads your mind and goes down on one knee.

I’d say it’s not most women, I think most of my friends were proposed to. But mostly as PP said, after a discussion, not a surprise ring in the glass of Prosecco. And I’ve noticed no correlation between romantic level of proposal and success of the marriage either.
Also agree this passive stuff is weird, as is the ‘we’re getting engaged at Christmas/my birthday’ thing. If you’ve agreed that, you’re engaged. You’ve agreed to get married. What you mean is ‘I’m getting a big staged proposal when we’ve already made the decision so I can feel like a Disney princess/get presents/go on Insta to crow.’
If you want to be married and he/she hasn’t asked, ask them. If they do, they’ll say yes. If not, then at least you know. Don’t sit for years ‘hinting’ and feeling resentful. You’re not six. it’s your life, take control!
If you must have the big rock and he can’t afford it, buy it between you. You’re not helpless or a mere chattel of your father, are you? Then it’s ‘our’ ring. I think that could be romantic.
If you must have the big romantic gesture, fine. Plan it. I just think staging it kind of takes the romance off it, but that’s just me.
If you must have the big day, bridezilla, etc, etc. then you do need to be engaged for a couple of years because of planning it all. If not, just get married!

No, I think men still usually propose. And I don't think women want that because they're all passive and helpless. I think they take it as a sign that the man actually wants to do it and is prepared to be proactive about it. It's a sign of his emotional commitment; men are pretty good at going after what they want and I do think they make that kind of effort when they genuinely love and want a woman.

Obviously on MN this isn't supposed to happen and everyone gets married for £2.50 in an underpass, serving canal water and hay and the bride wears a bed sheet because anything else is vulgar and shallow and a sign that the marriage won't last, but I'm talking about actual real people here.

I know what you mean OP. You’re not saying that women tend to get down on one knee these days, but that the whole proposal isn’t a huge shock and surprise. Most, actually every, couple I know spoke about marriage before a surprise engagement. A lot of the time it is the woman who initiates the chat, other times it’s the man. They had a chat about how they’d like to get married, are they in the financial position etc, and then a month or two later their DP did the whole proposal thing. Never known anyone to have a completely out of the blue proposal.