To think my employer isn’t allowed to do this? (Expecting staff to be on call but not paying them)

[Nurserytroubles9]

I’ll try and explain as best I can.

I work in a private day nursery and have done for the last two years. Due to a lot of our parents being key workers, we are operating as normal so to speak and still have a lot of children attending. The owners are always coming up with ways to try and save money, the newest being expecting staff to be on call but not paying them.

For example: I will be put down on the rota to start work at 8am. When I arrive, if there aren’t many children in the building yet they will send me up to the staff room with a phone and they will ring me to come down when more children have turned up. This could be 30 minutes later, 1 hour later but I will only be paid from the time I’ve been called down and started looking after the children. They do this with every staff member. The parents have paid a set rate for the day (we’re open from 7am-6:30pm) but might not bring their child in until say, 9am, so the nursery haven’t lost any money as the parents have already paid for the session. Does that make sense? Due to child/staff ratios the nursery have to make sure there are enough staff members in so the rota is set up to make sure a staff member starts every 30 minutes after the other.

I know times are hard for everyone, especially businesses but AIBU to expect to be paid from the time I come into work (the time they put me down to start on the rota)? We are only paid minimum wage and I think it’s an awful way to try and make a quick buck.

If your contracted to work 40 hrs a week they have to pay you for 40 hrs. What they are doing is illegal. I suggest you report them to the relevant authorities. You can do this without giving your name. Good Luck 🤞

I’m level 3 qualified to work in nurseries but I refuse to because they take the piss in many ways. That is totally out of order. Not a nursery I would want to be working at.

Having been a deputy manager at a nursery I'd say they are taking the mick! I would occasionally ask staff if we had low numbers "would you like to go home unpaid?" If all of their files were up to date and cleaning was done but we would never make them. This is shocking. You are just wasting your days at their beck and call

Out of interest how often do you get called down and how much time do you spend sitting upstairs?

What a shameful way to treat staff. Join a union, check your contract and put your foot down to this utter BS.

OP if you are an auntie or uncle get this post taken down asap. You have shared a bit too much info. Your employers are feckers btw

If you haven’t already join a union and let them fight your battle. It sounds very unfair expecting you to turn up and wait until there are sufficient children downstairs. I would of thought you’d have things to prepare to entertain the children at the start of the day anyway.

Surely if you are contracted to work 40hrs that means you have to receive 40hrs pay? I remember something happening in my work (vaguely) but the gist was several members of staff were being rostered to work half an hour below there contracted hours and all hell broke loose as an employer is not allowed to pay below contracted hours.(unless staff member hasnt worked contracted hours through their own choice)..

When they direct you to the staff room say no I’m on the rota to start at x time therefore I will make myself busy working setting up the play area, or some work activity as agreed. It’s not your issue they want staff at 7am and parents are not attending. You should be contracted to work a set weekly pattern unless you are on zero hours and again they should be putting through your monthly average on the basis of “if but civid” you would have worked and been paid for a certain amount of hours.

This is shocking and totally not allowed !!

I manage a nursery and each staff member has a contracted amount of hours they have to work / be paid for!

We have a few staff on flexi furlough - so if we do not need them then we claim furlough for them for the hours not worked!

We have got less children attending at the moment - but we have made it clear to the parents that if they decide to not come in for a period of time we need a rough idea how long and they need to message us and give at least a day or 2 notice if that we can expect them back - so we can plan rotas accordingly!

We have told them they may be turned away if they just show up without telling us if we haven’t enough staff rostered on that day!

I don’t know how your employer think this is on

Have you found your contract?

YANBU! What a disgrace! I hope this is sorted soon.

@Nurserytroubles9

Contact ACAS is writing and get written reply [though it's HMRC that oversees minimum wage and the like

I don’t think the OP has shared too much information......that comment a few above mine sounds like it’s come from someone who knows what’s happening and is trying to keep a lid on it....

Well tbh it’s so easy to find out the chain and I’ll bet they get a lot of backlash from this

Not that familiar (ok, not at all familiar) with UK labor regs, but here in the US, you could report them anonymously. They would investigate, and if it proved true, would be required to immediately pay ALL monies due, and get slapped with a healthy fine. Check into this. I worked for a development company that routinely ran several construction crews. They would work someone 35 hours on one crew, then move them to another to avoid overtime. They got reported, and had to pay out over $300K in past due overtime, plus another $100K in fines. They were OUTRAGED that someone turned them in.

Ok, so we’re looking at a company called something like Summer Meadow? Interesting...

Messing with rotas, never good. Raises questions around ratios and whether they’re legally compliant in that regard. Ditto when it comes to fire regs etc. Are you recorded as being in the building anywhere? You should be for fire safety purposes and this may well be something you can use to prove you should be paid. If you’re not logged as being there at all - well, another problem entirely as any nursery management team should have records of who’s where and when in terms of safeguarding.

Note - to the poster above saying you needed to be in the building for breaks so you’d be in ratio - wrong! If you’re out of the room, you’re not in ratio.

As others have mentioned, NMW and HMRC are good avenues to try.

Can't do that OP. So awful hope you get it sorted.

If I found out my nursery was doing this I would be livid!

OP is this a new thing or since covid?

If its since covid I am wondering if it's to do with bubbles, they cant use you elsewhere temporarily cause then you wouldnt be able to go Into your usual room cause it would break the bubble? That of course doesnt make it right but may explain their thinking.

Our nursery we have a half hour window to drop the kids off so they have a rough idea on who will be arriving and when, and also to help with social distancing and managing the numbers arriving at one time. Quite often I look in and there are 2 staff members In the room and only 1 or 2 children. One is usually prepping stuff on the logs and setting up activities for the day while the other is sorting breakfasts etc.

Surely there are tasks you can be doing which doesnt involve being in a room with kids if they dont want you doing that task straight away, like collecting from the door, cleaning equipment, prepping meals etc? Sorry not sure how your nursery works but it sounds like it's just you sat waiting ...

Op where do you live ...it sounds very much like the private nursery I used to work in. They tried to do this to the staff over summer time. Hasten to say we all said no but very sneaky trick and really quite shitty behaviour to be honest

Appalling but not surprising after 25 plus years in the childcare sector. I've worked in several nurseries and some worse than others. Some tried to say staff couldn't go out during an unpaid lunch hour. Fortunately most staff were able to voice the opinion that if we were expected to remain on site we should be paid.
Op have you discussed this with colleagues? It can't be just you who feels that way. It is honestly disgusting and I would wonder what else goes on. Are you always in ratio? After years of nursery experience which wasn't always good it's why I'm now a childminder.
Please let us know how you get on.

Breach of NMW. You can log a complaint to their HMRC dept (anonymous to employer if needed). They’ll conduct a review, interviews, gain access to pay records, etc. Contact them direct on 0300 123 1100 (mon-fri; 8-6)

Hi Nurserytroubles9, how did the conversation with your employer go today? Did you clear up the unpaid “on call” situation?

That’s absolutely outrageous! You’re at work. You should be paid. I’m sorry you’ve been treated so poorly

Are you on a zero hours contract?

I had an issue with a large chain nursery I worked for years ago taking the piss over hours and pay. I got advice from ACAS who were fantastic. When I approached the nursery they began by being awkward, as soon as I said I had already spoken to ACAS they did a very quick apologetic 180 on what they were trying to force through our contracts. Unluckily for them, they had technically served us notice by making these contract changes and quite a few staff walked out on the spot. Served them right for trying to screw their staff over. Stand up for yourself