To think my employer isn’t allowed to do this? (Expecting staff to be on call but not paying them)

[Nurserytroubles9]

I’ll try and explain as best I can.

I work in a private day nursery and have done for the last two years. Due to a lot of our parents being key workers, we are operating as normal so to speak and still have a lot of children attending. The owners are always coming up with ways to try and save money, the newest being expecting staff to be on call but not paying them.

For example: I will be put down on the rota to start work at 8am. When I arrive, if there aren’t many children in the building yet they will send me up to the staff room with a phone and they will ring me to come down when more children have turned up. This could be 30 minutes later, 1 hour later but I will only be paid from the time I’ve been called down and started looking after the children. They do this with every staff member. The parents have paid a set rate for the day (we’re open from 7am-6:30pm) but might not bring their child in until say, 9am, so the nursery haven’t lost any money as the parents have already paid for the session. Does that make sense? Due to child/staff ratios the nursery have to make sure there are enough staff members in so the rota is set up to make sure a staff member starts every 30 minutes after the other.

I know times are hard for everyone, especially businesses but AIBU to expect to be paid from the time I come into work (the time they put me down to start on the rota)? We are only paid minimum wage and I think it’s an awful way to try and make a quick buck.

@Jaxhog

If they want you on the premises they need to pay for your time.

This. Even they wanted you on call from home, they have to pay you.

This is correct per the law - people such as wardens have to be paid if they’re not allowed to leave the premises.

Actually as someone who got stiffed going into a meeting alone with my employer (about salary that they backtracked on) I'd strongly suggest going into the meeting with a 'witness'/colleague or to ask via email. You need their reply documented in some way.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/06/burger-king-dominos-zero-hour
This is an old article but mentions how Burger King was fined for similar practices.

www.independent.co.uk/news/burger-king-pays-pounds-106-000-to-staff-forced-to-clock-off-1526458.html

Burger King pays pounds 106,000 to staff forced to 'clock off'

The Labour Party, together with the unions, had campaigned for Burger King to pay compensation after it was revealed that staff were being told to clock off for unpaid breaks.

sounds a bit like this - you cannot leave the premises?

When my dd was at nursery years back, one of the staff rang me and another parent because they were being treated like this by the proprietor. We asked for a meeting with her and told her we didnt expect to get phone calls from disgruntled staff and we expected her to treat her staff with respect. Unhappy, miserable staff impacts upon the children as they pick up on atmospheres. Sounds like things haven't improved much.

On call is what DH does, a set rate each day to be available for advice and if he gets called in his hourly rate on top. That is on call. You are providing a free service, making yourself available on the premises for exploitation by the management. Don't be frightened to confront them - they need you more than you need them atm.

@Niconacotaco

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/06/burger-king-dominos-zero-hour This is an old article but mentions how Burger King was fined for similar practices.

great minds!!!

I would vote with my feet on this one - find a better employer!

This is similar to the zero hour contracts that McDonalds got slammed for years back. Basically their staff was only paid when serving customers so they didn't get paid while waiting for customers to show up. On a slow day someone might get paid for 1 hour when they'd been there for 7. I'm sure this was made illegal at some point.

They do still use zero hour contract but these are different in that there's a schedule agreed 2 weeks in advance and (supposedly) the employees get paid for all those hours they are at work.

That's shocking?
Blimin cheek of them.

@SmudgeButt

This is similar to the zero hour contracts that McDonalds got slammed for years back. Basically their staff was only paid when serving customers so they didn't get paid while waiting for customers to show up. On a slow day someone might get paid for 1 hour when they'd been there for 7. I'm sure this was made illegal at some point.

They do still use zero hour contract but these are different in that there's a schedule agreed 2 weeks in advance and (supposedly) the employees get paid for all those hours they are at work.

It was Burger King (possibly McD as well)

HMRC?
breaking minimum wage rule?
worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/pay-and-contracts/pay/am-i-entitled-be-paid-time-i-am-required-spend-standby-waiting-see

There seem to be lots of people on this thread asserting that the employer is not allowed to do this with some insisting that they must pay you for time when you are at home and on call. I would suggest these posters take a look at www.acas.org.uk/rest-breaks/employees-on-call. This clearly and correctly states that it depends on your contract whether you are paid for time when you are on call at home, staying or sleeping at your workplace. You must be paid when you are awake and working but there is nothing in law currently that says you have to be paid when you are on call.

There have been references to Burger King. For clarity, they were not fined. They voluntarily compensated employees when it emerged that some outlets had failed to follow company policy regarding rostering by telling staff to clock off during quiet periods.

My personal view is that employers should pay employees if they are expected to be on call, particularly if they are required to be on the premises. However, that is not how the law stands currently.

But the whole point is that she is not 'on-call' or sleeping she is arriving for work and then being directed to go and sit in a room with no task to do and no pay.

It depends if you’ve signed the over 40 hours a week thing.

My old job I was to do overnights, unpaid from 7pm through to 7am.
I reported it many times but because I’d signed to say I would work more than 40 hours then I didn’t have a leg to stand on.

The 'on call' discuss is a bit of a red herring here as it appears that OP has a 40hr a week contract and is being told to wait in another room after she arrives for her shift and then not being paid for it. Unless there are some terms in her contract then this is simple breach of contract. The whys an wherefores of on call payments is neither here nor there.

The consequences for breach of NMW are very severe. Unless your employers are completely clueless the words “I think that means you are paying me less than NMW.” should bring them to their senses.

And if they still don’t get it then the words “I think I need to talk to ACAS” might make them wise up.

Nuclear option is “I’m sorry, I still think that this is a breach of NMW law and I’m going to ask HMRC whether they agree.” But you genuinely don’t want it to get that far because your struggling employer being fined twenty grand is in nobody’s interests.

Completely and utterly illegal. Report them for failure to pay NMW.

Utter fucking scamsters.

This makes me question how much these con artists are making out if nurseries. Same thing with care homes for the elderly

Get into private nannying, op.

Folk are crying out for nannies.

No they can't do that. Unless they put you on a zero hour contract. Which this effectively is. Or even worse. As you are expected to be on the premises. On call is at home not on the premises. And even then it sounds dodgy in your circumstances.

I wouldn't have a meeting with your manager. If they're willing to treat you like that, they'll be willing to fuck you over even more in a meeting.

I'd take a couple of days to have proof of this happening, search for another job, and call ACAS and report your findings.

Can you calculate how long this has been going on for? Definitely join a union or speak to Acas as soon as you can.

I would be asking for a meeting with the boss/manager with as much information as possible.

Speak to Acas and get the information you need before you meet with your employer. Tjere may even be something relevant on the Acas website

No that's illegal.

Nope. If you're rota'd and in the building you're working.

You need to either join a union or speak to citizens advice.

They're breaking employment law.