To think my employer isn’t allowed to do this? (Expecting staff to be on call but not paying them)

[Nurserytroubles9]

I’ll try and explain as best I can.

I work in a private day nursery and have done for the last two years. Due to a lot of our parents being key workers, we are operating as normal so to speak and still have a lot of children attending. The owners are always coming up with ways to try and save money, the newest being expecting staff to be on call but not paying them.

For example: I will be put down on the rota to start work at 8am. When I arrive, if there aren’t many children in the building yet they will send me up to the staff room with a phone and they will ring me to come down when more children have turned up. This could be 30 minutes later, 1 hour later but I will only be paid from the time I’ve been called down and started looking after the children. They do this with every staff member. The parents have paid a set rate for the day (we’re open from 7am-6:30pm) but might not bring their child in until say, 9am, so the nursery haven’t lost any money as the parents have already paid for the session. Does that make sense? Due to child/staff ratios the nursery have to make sure there are enough staff members in so the rota is set up to make sure a staff member starts every 30 minutes after the other.

I know times are hard for everyone, especially businesses but AIBU to expect to be paid from the time I come into work (the time they put me down to start on the rota)? We are only paid minimum wage and I think it’s an awful way to try and make a quick buck.

Wtf. That's disgusting.

Find a new job ASAP and report them.

I worked for a nursery who did similar. Also breaks had to be taken on site as they still needed us to be in the ratio. Breaks were unpaid. I left. Seeing what went on put me off private day nurseries for life and my dc never went to one. I appreciate there are some excellent ones out there, but this one had a really good reputation With parents, but behind closed doors relied on Kind, but naive staff who were treated appallingly up by an unscrupulous employer.

They sound like complete fools if they think they can get away with this.

The rota that you are sent a copy of = the hours that you turn up to work = the hours you get paid. And you absolutely threaten these guys with HMRC, they are modern day slave masters.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

They sound like complete fools if they think they can get away with this.

The rota that you are sent a copy of = the hours that you turn up to work = the hours you get paid. And you absolutely threaten these guys with HMRC, they are modern day slave masters.

Whilst I don't disagree, HMRC don't seem very good at enforcing anything.

That is properly awful!
They of course need to pay you from the time you are in the building and waiting. Even if they send you home after and hour you need to be paid, as it’s time you can’t work another job.

@grassisjeweled

Get into private nannying, op.

Folk are crying out for nannies.

This is a great idea!

Pretty sure that is illegal

Put in a tribunal claim for unpaid wages for all the relevant hours.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/employment-tribunals-from-29-july-2013/making-an-employment-tribunal-claim-is-it-worth-it/employment-tribunals-will-you-win-your-claim/employment-tribunals-winning-a-claim-if-your-employer-owes-you-money/#:~:text=Wages%20claims&text=the%20money%20you%20are%20owed,no%20right%20to%20do%20so

Join a union. Always.

Join a Trade Union, but remember they usually have a 4 week rule. Which means that can advise but not represent you if you need help within the first 4 weeks if membership

I would start taking a photo of the rota given to you and email it to yourself so you have a dated record even if your manager changes it later. What is the official system for changing rotas, for example to cover staff sickness? Make sure you keep a record of these changes too. If only done verbally then text or email manager after to confirm the changes and keep for your records.

Nope.

Join a union.

They have to pay for your time, even your on call time, even if you are on call at home.

@WeAreShiningStars

Nope.

Join a union.

They have to pay for your time, even your on call time, even if you are on call at home.

On the bottom point it isn’t always all that clear. There is case law on it either way.

However I agree that where you are in the nursery you are not on call, you are at work. Definitely take it further.

Please report this op. It's illegal and a lot of staff are probably losing out on pay, very unfair.

No no no no no. This is not right or allowed at all.

OP there’s nothing that some employers love more than employees not knowing their employer rights. I’ve come into situations along this line before - management trying to convince employees that they don’t have as much annual leave as they thought etc. You need your contract in hand (and for gods sake do not physically hand over the original to them, take a photocopy if you need to)

If your contract states 40 hours of work then you are entitled to 40 hours of pay. Now there may be a clause about days of the week for example (one nursery I worked at had us do 4 very long days and a day off, which they tried to keep the same each week but ultimately sometimes it had to move, and that was written into contract, that the day off May move)

There also has to be adequate notice of hours being reduced. If they can’t afford to pay you they need to make you redundant or give the required notice of reducing hours (which without disciplinary action being an issue, would also be stated in your contract and normally matches the notice period time you personally would have to give if you decided to leave). They have a right to change your contract with notice (and likewise you have a right not to sign which would change it into redundancy as you’ve been there two years or more) but they can’t just do this to you without warning as it suits them. It’s illegal, don’t stand for it.

To be honest I don’t know ACAS phone line hours but I think you should try and talk to them before you talk to your management. Then you will have a clear knowledge in your head. Plus it makes you look stronger going into the office saying you have spoke to ACAS and know that the situation is wrong based on X Y and Z. This could result in your manager leaving you be and just paying you as normal - people who pull this kind of stunt often get freaked when they realise the employee knows their rights, the law and how to move forward. No harm in saying your in a union either, they don’t have a right to make you prove it but again it makes them realise you’ve got someone on your side (btw join one now)

Was anyone from your nursery furloughed last year? I’m in an independent school and some staff have been refurloughed but the rules now require / allow staff to work 20% of their hours. Your nursery may have to consider something like this if it’s in financial need.

What do your colleagues think of this? You need to act together - your being taken for a ride majorly.

Arrive on Monday on time. You need to speak clearly and firmly and don’t falter. Hard I know, I’ve been in this boat (not the same issue but still fighting my employee rights) and the more aware and firm you are, the better it goes.
Best of luck OP

Being on call means you can be at home doing whatever you want to do as long as you are free and available to get called in at short notice. You should also probably get an on call payment for not being able to go where you want or drink alcohol etc

Nursery owner here is taking the mick, has furloughed someone I know who said ok and took on some private child care work. Her employer found out and has threatened to sack her. I thought if you were furloughed you were allowed to work elsewhere. Was I wrong?

Report them to any and every authority that will listen.

I think the whole conversation about NMW and being on call is over complicating matters and and detracting from the very simple fact - if OP is contracted to work 40 hours a week then she must be paid for 40 hours a week. That is what she needs to point out to her employer. If they need to reduce your hours they will have to amend your contract and give you the required notice.

@Nurserytroubles9 Have you worked out how many hours you've been underpaid since they started doing this? You need to ensure that they give you back pay.

I would be so upset if I found out DS's nursery were doing this. I'm paying a daily rate, so staff should be receiving that money. I would withdraw my child and tell all my friends. I want my child cared for by well paid and happy employees -- that's what I'm paying a bomb for. Not minimum wage, not "you're under 25 you don't get paid" and certainly not "we won't pay you because the child isn't here yet".

I meant not "you're under 25 you don't get paid the same as someone else for doing the same job"

This is shocking, OP. So glad you’re taking action.

What absolute cunts.

This is terrible and probably illegal.
However I am not sure how you can stand up for your rights?
I would just get another job somewhere else (I know this might not be easy at the moment) then claim back your wages, I guess you need to start compiling proof while you still work there.
How do they expect you to pay your own bills?!?

Harlequin is Gabrielle