To think my employer isn’t allowed to do this? (Expecting staff to be on call but not paying them)

[Nurserytroubles9]

I’ll try and explain as best I can.

I work in a private day nursery and have done for the last two years. Due to a lot of our parents being key workers, we are operating as normal so to speak and still have a lot of children attending. The owners are always coming up with ways to try and save money, the newest being expecting staff to be on call but not paying them.

For example: I will be put down on the rota to start work at 8am. When I arrive, if there aren’t many children in the building yet they will send me up to the staff room with a phone and they will ring me to come down when more children have turned up. This could be 30 minutes later, 1 hour later but I will only be paid from the time I’ve been called down and started looking after the children. They do this with every staff member. The parents have paid a set rate for the day (we’re open from 7am-6:30pm) but might not bring their child in until say, 9am, so the nursery haven’t lost any money as the parents have already paid for the session. Does that make sense? Due to child/staff ratios the nursery have to make sure there are enough staff members in so the rota is set up to make sure a staff member starts every 30 minutes after the other.

I know times are hard for everyone, especially businesses but AIBU to expect to be paid from the time I come into work (the time they put me down to start on the rota)? We are only paid minimum wage and I think it’s an awful way to try and make a quick buck.

[MajorBumsore]

Oh bugger wrong thread entirely! 😂

[partyatthepalace]

This sounds illegal to me (and is certainly immoral) - contact your union or citizens advice. I would also go work somewhere else. Sorry you are so unappreciated

[Ameliablue]

I don't understand what is happening with the rota? When are you given a rota and when are they changing it? Are they changing it on a daily basis to add extra hours to make up 40 hours with children?

[Rhiannon13]

I'm a carer OP and get exactly the same treatment. Constantly called on my day/ weekend off and expected to be available at all times to cover staff who aren't pulling their weight. But only paid when I'm physically inside clients houses. Not even paid for walking from my car to the front door. Some employers are complete piss-takers.

Hopefully you're supported by a union?

[mum11970]

Any chance it’s a nursery with a frog on it’s logo? Doesn’t sound legal in the slightest. Get on to ACAS. If you have to be on the premises, they have to pay you.

[Rhiannon13]

I feel for you regarding your rota too. Mine is often changed with minutes to spare and I now have to check it every time I leave a visit in case it's changed.

[Darbs76]

No they can’t do this, what do they expect you to do? Sit and browse your phone? I mean you can’t leave and do something else so you’re still in work. And like you say they aren’t losing any money if kids don’t show up till later (probably happening more if parents working at home so not leaving as early in the morning). Everyone needs to get onto the union ASAP

[Nurserytroubles9]

@mum11970 you guessed it...

[Nurserytroubles9]

@mum11970 how did you know?

[mum11970]

I’m in North Wales too, they cover my area and I knew they definitely had multiple sites. Don’t let them get away with this. The amount of people they employ they’ll be saving themselves a fortune at their employees expense.

[mum11970]

They are certainly not a small company needling to save a few quid, they have a 7 figure turnover.

[Brefugee]

However I am not sure how you can stand up for your rights?

Join. A. Union. All of you. Join. A. Union.
And stop voting for parties and events that are going to roll back your employment rights.

I thought there were rules about rotas? you should make a copy, or a photo, then email it to your boss with the remark that as per the rota you will be working x, y and z days, at a, b and c times.

But mostly - and this goes for everyone: join. a. union.

[Bananabuddy3]

Yes - join a union.

@Nurserytroubles9 ACAS will direct you in how to claim back any lost payment and essentially what to do next.

I also recommend Citizens Advice - who essentially point you in the direction of ACAS but here’s a link to a page about pay disputes: www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/rights-at-work/pay/problems-getting-paid/#ifnotgettinganywhere. (Sorry HQ I’m assuming this is allowed? Obviously remove if not)

If you don’t get a satisfactory answer the first thing you need to do is file a grievance (and ask for the grievance procedure) - ideally all of you need to. This may solve it. If not you may have to be prepared to go higher, possibly tribunal, but this is where the likes of ACAS can help you and prevent it getting that far - and a company won’t want to go to tribunal if they know they’re in the wrong. It really shouldn’t get that far, but OP as you are undoubtedly aware this is a hard time to be trying to seek other work.

Bottom line - 40 hours contract means you get paid 40 hours. Besides any sick pay issue etc, even if they don’t want you, they have to pay you. Don’t stand for it. Gather up all paper work and pay slips - best of luck OP

[Spanielmadness]

This is why I left nursery work. They treat you like crap and expect you to come in weekends, evenings, arrive early, stay late etc all for free. Staff are usually young and unsure and feel they have no choice but to agree.

[iwishiwasatcentralperk]

I would contact ACAS asap and get some advice from them.

[csigeek]

You’re in the building, not allowed to go home. This is an NMW breach and they are breaking the law. If they refuse to change and you think it’s worth the risk of then firing you report them to HMRC.

[jwpetal]

Note down every time this has happened any paperwork you.

[pollymere]

The best analogy I can come up with is working in a shop which has very few customers. The Manager asks you to start at eight to cover the possible early shoppers and then staff come in later as it gets busier. However, that day you don't have any customers or very few. They could send you home early but they'd probably get you tidying the stock room or the shop floor. They might say to go on your break early if it's totally dead. However, unless it's your lunch break, they have to pay you for being there, or send you home if you're on minimum hours.

[pollymere]

If you have forty hour contract I would suspect they need to pay you for 40 hours, whether it's busy or not. If they decide to put you in the staffroom, that would be paid as part of that.

[Twowilldo50]

This is illegal. You are to be paid for all your time you are required to be in their premises. Pizza Hut tried this with their employees but didn’t realise one of them had an employment solicitor dad who sorted them out quite sharpish.

[Thurlow]

@mum11970

Any chance it’s a nursery with a frog on it’s logo? Doesn’t sound legal in the slightest. Get on to ACAS. If you have to be on the premises, they have to pay you.

@mum11970 have PM'd you

OP, as a parent who uses a private nursery chain I'm shocked to hear this and would be so unhappy if this happened at our chain

[cherish123]

I've already replied but I am going to add in a few thoughts because I am angry on your behalf.

1. You have a contract for 40hrs - you should get paid 40hrs.
2. You are not "on call". On call is where you can stay at home/do your own thing but must come when requested. You have to come to work and sit in a room if there are not enough children.

Join a union and speak to ACAS. Before you do make notes of rota times, including changes. Always take a screenshot when you get rota. Keep a diary of your working day - arrival times, times worked with children, time in the room not being paid, any other grievances. Ultimately though, look for a new job. Good lu6.

[like7]

This is not right. Unfortunately it happens quite a lot I think, but usually in zero hours contracts..
DC has had 3 jobs in hospitality. If she arrived and they had too many staff/not enough customers she could be told to go home (having taken 2 buses to get there) so was out of pocket or she was told to sit in the staff room and they may/may not use her later so no pay if they didn't. Dont get me started on the abuse of the furlough system ...

[heyfrog]

So many people here giving an opinion who have absolutely no idea on the NMW rules. You are at your place of work, and are "available" to work (in that the minute your employer wanted you to be available, you'd be there and working). This is very different to you say sitting in the staff room because your bus got there at 10am and your shift started at 11 (ie for your own convenience).
It doesn't matter if your contract says you can do this, it breaches NMW rules.
Complain to HMRC - they are obliged to follow up on this sort of complaint....

[DHdweller]

Utterly ridiculous