US erasing Women - Janice Turner

[feelingquitehopeful]

It was totally shocking to me this week as a supporter of the Democrats to see Biden choosing his moment carefully on day one to wipe out women's and girl's rights in the states in one fail swoop. There was no discussion, no consultation. No warning. Just like that he removed centuries of our rights as women.

He will now go down in history as the first President that abolished womenhood and Motherhood and women's rights. I am astonished and horrified and reeling actually, even this morning. I have had a few days to process the shock, but no, I am still reeling.

It is now punishable to describe a woman as a mother for instance, or to stop a man/boy with a penis showering with your pre teen daughter at school.
Prisons can no longer keep women safe, they will now lock up male rapists (Identifying as women, which anyone can now do no questions asked) with trapped female prisoners in cells. Can you imagine being in that position? The horror of being trapped in that situation, as survivor this actually keeps me awake at night.

Men can use lavatories, locker rooms and showers with young girls. It is ILLEGAL to now stop them. It is also illegal to stop a man competing in women's sports, making women's and girls sports now obsolete. What girl is going to outrun a biological male?

We have literally, as a sex been erased completely from the legal framework and with it all of our protections thanks to Biden. Men can still be men, because that doesn't offend anyone apparently - they will not be called 'testicle havers' or 'ejaculators' it will only be women subjected to this. So that says a lot of modern equality and where we are with it today in the US.

Women have been reduced to 'Menstruators' and the highly offensive 'black birthing bodies' if you are describing a mother from the BAME community. That is what we must all be called now.

That is the new healing landscape Biden describes as he cuts out the rights of half the nation.

Janice Turner as always is an absolute legend, and her excellent article 'War of words risks wiping women from our Language' in the Times this morning is outstanding, and covers the grave situation we ALL now face. For anyone thinking it could never happen here, think again.

Read it for yourself:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/war-of-words-risks-wiping-women-from-our-language-djhp2mwjg

We’re talking about public places.

Honestly. Women! You can't gather in public without a male. Including sports, girl guides, rape refuges, hospitals, mental health wards, prisons, loos, changing rooms, gyms, showers, outdoor pools, lesbian clubs and dating sites.

But, you can invite a friend round for tea.

I know it's a (very)minority view on here but I think it's wonderful news. I'm also highly aware it's an emotive and difficult subject and am not commenting to be goady or provocative, just that I want anyone reading to know that not everyone on Mumsnet feels the same about the subject.

If you're not here to be goady or provacative, why not stay and discuss what you think is so wonderful about girls no longer having sports or spaces of their own?

People can still have private gatherings and groups,

Oh wow. That's fantastic news. Young girls can hold it in until they get home from school. Sporty girls should perhaps give up sports that require speed or strength. No reason they can't do dancing instead.

Another minority (for Mumsnet - not in the real world) voice here

Honestly the conspiracy sharing scare-mongering going on here would be ridiculous if people didn't believe it without fact-checking for themselves - it has a distinct Q-Anon vibe

the OP talks about how you can't use the word 'mother' etc any more - what rot! This is a right-wing fantasy about Nancy Pelosi using gender-neutral alternatives in the text of one document
www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelosi-gender-ban-house/

Secondly the statement from Biden upholds the Supreme Court Bostock decision that extends protections to LGBT+ people - if you only read bigoted rubbish designed to make you outraged then you will misunderstand - try this one instead from a more mainstream media www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/biden-issues-executive-order-expanding-lgbtq-nondiscrimination-protections-n1255165

Thirdly the Times is not exactly a neutral publication - only today they have what is frankly a load of lies about the census - saying that 'the question of 'sex' is finally back' when it had never left and there was never any question of it not being included (as it has been since the origins of the census). What the transphobes are outraged about is that it is also including a question on gender identity.

Fourthly I note that none of the 'gender-critical feminists' have mentioned that Biden has pledged to uphold and codify Roe vs Wade which the Trump administration was constantly trying to undermine. Perhaps if you don't understand US politics you won't understand how enormous this is for women's rights. Although there seem to be many here only interested in attacking trans rights and don't care who they line up with to do it!

Mumnet appears to have become a hotbed of transphobes, homophobes, racists and conspiracy theorists - and there are definitely some people here seeking to stoke outrage a la Mary Whitehouse - what's a bit depressing is that people apparently don't bother to check for themselves

@everybodysang, I also would like to know why you think it's 'wonderful news'. Can you articulate as to why? Especially after many, many women can give factual reasons as to why it's quite the opposite?

@katrina11, do you think that male-bodied people being allowed to compete in female sports is a positive thing that has zero repercussions then?

‘Gender critical feminist’

That’s tautology.

@katrina11 The proposal is that any educational institution that receives federal funding must allow any boys who identify as girls into their restrooms, locker-room and sports teams, isn't it?
Have we got that wrong?

What you mean by The Times is not neutral Katrina is that you’re upset that it actually reports on trans matters in a non cheerleading way unlike such ‘progressive’ papers such as the guardian and The Times also has brilliant writers such as Janice Turner.

In the real world where I live people know that men can’t become women and that females should have their single sex spaces including sports protected. No idea what peculiar world you live in.

and The Times also has brilliant writers such as Janice Turner.

Indeed.

Janice Turner who was present when Maria Machlan was knocked to the ground by a transactivist. And had her damages reduced because she would not refer to a male as she in court. One of the events that kickstarted a lot of this reporting.

Janice Turner who was awarded the Orwell prize for journalism.

The Orwell Prize, based at University College London, is a British prize for political writing. The Prize is awarded by The Orwell Foundation, an independent charity (Registered Charity No 1161563, formerly 'The Orwell Prize') governed by a board of trustees.

That Janice Turner.

what is frankly a load of lies about the census - saying that 'the question of 'sex' is finally back' when it had never left and there was never any question of it not being included (as it has been since the origins of the census). What the transphobes are outraged about is that it is also including a question on gender identity

I think you're confused, Katrin.

Some campaign groups in Scotland were campaigning for three options to the sex question: M/F/Non-binary - which of course would have rendered the data useless. That isn't going to happen.

And the govt have clarified sex means legal sex - not 'gender identity' - which is what some groups WERE pushing for and was in the guidance last year. (And again would have rendered the data useless)
I don't see anyone outraged that gender identity is included in addition to the sex question.

Looks like you're the one making things up here.

If anyone believes that Harris cares or is perturbed by any of Biden's actions thus far, I'm afraid they're deluded. She is as "identity politics"-happy as they come and will lean whatever way the wind blows to stay in a position of power. (No sentiment here over the momentous election of a female vice president!)

@Doyoumind

katrina has only posted a handful of times and just on these kinds of threads. Kind of says it all.

that's true because usually I can't be bothered. Interesting that those 'just wanting a debate' are so quick to trash any dissenting voices. This is fairly typical of those who are constantly claiming with their loud voices to be 'silenced' when in fact they are published in mainstream right wing media constantly. Also interesting that you apparently haven't bothered to read anything that doesn't back up your world viewpoint - as I said 'conspiracy theories'.

Trans inclusion has been a fact since before the Equality Act and the world hasn't fallen in nor has it affected the fight for women's rights. What I would argue has affected the fight for women's rights is this constant fantasy that 1-2% of the population have somehow 'erased women' rather than concentrating on low pay, abortion rights, domestic violence etc etc - and as for the notion of 'male-bodied' people' I suspect the only way to police that is by genital inspections (which is in fact what a Republican opponent of Bostock is proposing). I also suspect you're not having a go at male toilet attendants or male prison officers!

If you're concerned about toilets - and you should be - successive governments have closed public amenities - why not campaign for safe toilets that are cubicles and free to all - I don't think this is what people's agendas are though; it's all about trying to make the public sphere an unsafe place for trans people.

Trans people have been using the facilities according to their acquired gender for years - it is only because a number of groups put out a daily torrent of misinformation about the GRA that there is this faux outrage - self-identification, as mumsnet users know it, is covered by the Equality Act, which by it's very purpose is meant to be inclusive unless excluding is a 'proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim'. Bigotry doesn't count for this.

To finish - not a troll and certainly can't be bothered to screenshot - just one of many who disagree with the prevailing view on here and is not scared to say so!

Trans inclusion has been a fact since before the Equality Act and the world hasn't fallen in nor has it affected the fight for women's rights. What I would argue has affected the fight for women's rights is this constant fantasy that 1-2% of the population have somehow 'erased women'

What's your definition of woman, if you don't mind me asking?

@VetiverAndLavender

If anyone believes that Harris cares or is perturbed by any of Biden's actions thus far, I'm afraid they're deluded. She is as "identity politics"-happy as they come and will lean whatever way the wind blows to stay in a position of power. (No sentiment here over the momentous election of a female vice president!)

100% and even more shame on her as a woman going along with it.

@katrina11, mind answering my question? Do you think that there is zero harm or repercussions to people who are biologically male competing against girls and women in sport?

What I would argue has affected the fight for women's rights is this constant fantasy that 1-2% of the population have somehow 'erased women' rather than concentrating on low pay, abortion rights, domestic violence etc etc

What is the name of the group of human beings who need abortion rights? Are we allowed to discuss how biology might be involved in this, or is that 'reductive and exclusionary' as Munroe Bergdorf told us?

What is the name of the group of the group of humans who traditionally are paid less that the other group of humans? Is there any way of analysing why this group might be paid less than the other group? Are we allowed to discuss how biology might be involved in this, or not?

What is the name of the group of humans, 2 of which are murdered a week in the UK by the other group of humans, who disproportionately suffer DV at the hands of another group of humans?

Whose rights are these we are discussing, exactly?

I also suspect you're not having a go at male toilet attendants or male prison officers!

When public toilets are being cleaned by a male attendant there is always a sign up informing people of this. Why do you think that is?

You mean the way lesbians are expected to "cope" with the unexpected presence of a penis?

No.

If you actually believe Biden will keep his pledge and uphold Roe vs Wade when he will not even uphold womens` right to use the word "women" that is painfully naive. Biden is no more of a friend to women than Trump was.

which by it's very purpose is meant to be inclusive unless excluding is a 'proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim'. Bigotry doesn't count for this.

Privacy and dignity for women and girls who need female only spaces isn't "bigotry". And the single sex exemptions are there for a reason.