Update on a caring for friends children.

[Updatemate]

A while a go I posted about a friend of mine who was terminally ill and she had 2 young children, had lost her husband early last year very suddenly and it was questionable who would care for the children.

I wanted to update anyone who remembers. The thread was removed because a family member contacted me and asked it was.

Well sadly, she died just before Christmas and the children have remained with us for the time being. SS are involved by feel the children are best with us until something more formal can be arranged. The maternal grandparents are living in bfs house temporarily and visit us (the children) frequently (I'm not sure it is strictly 'allowed' under covid but SS feel it is beneficial). SS have ruled out the sister in Australia - based on her husbands lack of engagement with them. They have advised that if he were to be willing to engage or sister was to leave him they would reconsider, though there is a timeframe. But basically he doesn't want to take them on. We've zoomed with them and to be honest I'm relieved, he isn't very nice and I would worry about them all the way over there.

DH and I haven't decided if we are able to parent the children going forward, they are lovely and have slotted in to our family life really well but it is such a huge commitment with such wide reaching ramifications if we make the wrong decision. But they do feel very much 'ours'.

So not much of an update I'm afraid - but thank you to everyone who took time to respond to my original post, I really appreciated the advice.

You're doing an amazing thing, I really hope if DH and I died our friends would step up the same.

it's not really the commitment we have issues with but the impact on our biological kids, the reduction in 1:1 time they'll get.

Totally understand this, as well as GPs are there other aunt's and uncles on the scene who would want to see the DC regularly?

As depending on age of GPs they may be able to offer help now but perhaps not in 5/10 years.

If they are doubling up well now then it bodes well for the future. A slightly larger family is busy but it is fun.

Will there be finances for university? Will that be different if they are fostered as opposed to adopted? University could be really expensive and simultaneous.

I remember your original thread. Thanks for the update- I'm so sorry about your best friend passing. I think it would be such a comfort for her knowing her children are with you for the time being, being loved and cared for. Wishing the very best to all of you for the future.

Gutted for you and your friend to have lost each other. What a situation.

I think it could help your children to turn out into extra special caring adults having shared their childhood in such a kind way. It sounds like an adventure but this is serious stuff for you.

Are you allowed some time off work for your own self-care, even one afternoon a month? It is such a lot to process at the best of times let alone during the pandemic. Working 1:1 with a nurturing and safe professional should help you to release any guilt if you choose not to keep them.

What will be will be, the fact they are orphaned so young may be the overriding issue rather than who they live with next. Good luck x

Totally understand this, as well as GPs are there other aunt's and uncles on the scene who would want to see the DC regularly?

No. Bf had her mum&dad. Sister is in Australia and hasn't met the youngest. I guess she'd see them if she comes over again but it's a once every 5 or so years. Their father was an only child and his parents are not very involved, his mum has severe MH issues, is currently hospitalised. His father is a recluse.

Cattitudes unfortunately that's not my experience of a large family.

Thankfully mum and dad were financially comfortable and once the family home is sold there'll be money for uni, a house deposit, school fees, and ongoing child raising costs. I know that makes us incredibly fortunate given the circumstances. Finances aren't a worry. It's definitely made me relook at our life insurance!

Bfs parents are only up here until end of lockdown, they have caring responsibilities in the SE. So if they can take the children, it will be back home with them. Whilst I know it's probably for the best that they are with family it does break my heart a little that they'll be so far away.

Thing is, times like this when they are all playing nicely together building dens, it seems so easy but then other times, such as after school when the older 2 are tired and had enough of each other it seems a bit bonkers to consider it and I'm constantly muttering ffs under my breath!

Well done for doing this - I just wanted to comment on your valid point of 1-1 time with your own children; I have four girls 8,7,2 and 10 months and it is hard to get the one on one time but it is doable - even half an hour one evening or a quick walk with only one is lovely, I think they’re also so young they can’t remember or know anything else other than having siblings!!

I think with the ages you have it would really work - they’re all so close in age that holidays will suit all of them and they have playmates forever!

One thing to think about tho is finances in the future - would you be able to treat all equally - education/cars/weddings/birthdays?

I personally think, which the ages that the children are it would really work for you to have them loving with you; if your bfs two could have weekends away occasionally with their relatives then you could use this time to have time with your children BUT you’ll probably get to a stage when it wouldn’t feel right to not have all 4!! I would definitely take my bfs/sisters children in if the sad situation ever occurred.

It’s such early days, well done and good luck!

I remember you and am so happy you have been able to give those little ones some stability at a time of such sadness. Whether they stay long term with you or the grandparents you will always have a special place in those children’s hearts when they look back as they will remember being loved and safe x

it seems so easy but then other times, such as after school when the older 2 are tired and had enough of each other it seems a bit bonkers to consider it and I'm constantly muttering ffs under my breath!

That sounds like very normal family life OP! It can't be wonderful all the time, it wouldn't be real. I think this is a real gut instinct decision. What do want to do?

I guess all families are different I have one sibling but we are and always have been complete opposites. My two oldest probably wouldn't naturally be as close if it was just the two of them, but an extra child in the mix means they get a wider choice of companion. Before lockdown one parent would often take one child into town say for school shoes and then go to a cafe. You do need to have the time with both parents available to be able to do that. It might also be worth considering budgeting in money for activities so say the oldest two do drama together on a Sat am and each parent takes one of the younger ones etc. It isn't an easy decision though and has to work for all of you.

Wow OP I remember your first thread. Just wanted to sorry that your friend has now died. You are doing an amazing thing for her and her children. Whatever you decide in the long term you have heart of gold. Your family are so fortunate to have you as their mum with your love and compassion.

So we got the social workers report today and I'm a bit lost to honest. Their recommendation is that the children live with us long term and the grandparents have unimpeded access (e.g. not on a schedule/ contact arrangement or supervised).

I spoke with the social worker once I'd read it and asked a few questions, mainly about the impact on our bio kids, which she couldn't really answer beyond saying they're young enough to adjust and what if we didn't feel we could, which she also didn't really answer beyond saying that an out of family adoption was a possibility and to let the know if we wanted that.

If they were adopted out of the family/ us would grandparents still have access? I forgot to ask that.

It all feels such a mess. I'm paralysed by the possibility of doing the wrong thing!

I think in some circumstances contact is maintained when adoption occurs and this may be one of them. Probably not very frequent more like twice a year - you will need to ask the social worker though.

I don't think there is a right or wrong. Both you and adopters would give them a good life just as there are pros and cons for your bio DC.

I would use some of the DC trust money to pay for help - the less domestic chores you have the more emotional capacity and energy you will have for caring for all the DC.

I think it’s not surprising that they’ve recommended you as most suitable to take the DC permanently. I think that is no doubt in your BF’s DC’s best interests, with grandparents being actively involved and having access.

I completely understand your concerns with your own DC. I think if you can use the money to do whatever you can to get as much help as possible, you can carve out the space and time for your DC. I know that’s easy to say. But a rock solid system, excellent childcare - a nanny, perhaps, or mother’s help type of role - with frequent grandparent time.

You might want to get some counselling for you to process your own childhood and how it’s playing in? It’s a massive decision.

Hi OP, I remember the thread. I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I think the comment I made on the last post was how I wished I had a friend like you as it would have been such a comfort for your friend to know how much you were looking out for her children. You are doing an amazing thing. And even if you decide you can't become parents to them forever, just helping them through this stage will have been so valuable.

My Oldest friend is currently going through the adoption process and a lot of their initial preparatory workshops focus on the impact on birth children. I wonder if there is a way of making contact with someone who has that knowledge to answer your questions? Possibly even an adoption social worker on mumsnet?

@Updatemate

The social worker is right in saying your kids will adapt fine, the question is do you have capacity to care for them emotionally, doubling your family - I suspect you do, you sound amazing. Then there's the financial aspect, you could ask social services about long term support as 2 extra kids isn't cheap, it's something my friend got when she agreed to raise her grandkids so definitely possible. Giving you special guardianship is something that gives the kids reassurance that they are wanted too. If they are adopted out elsewhere the grandparents may get less access than with you because of how it works, only on a set schedule perhaps monthly at best, you could be a lot more flexible.

It's a huge decision but I know I would if it were me. I was named as my friends kids guardian in case something happened to her, thankfully not needed, they are grown

What you are doing is amazing, even giving them that love and stability for now is a huge investment in their futures. What a comfort you must have been to your friend when she was dying

You say that you have no financial worries, so I wonder if you could afford private pre-adoption counselling? Even if you are not adopting them as such, this is still a huge decision, and I have to say although I am sure the social worker was doing her job, that's sometimes all they do - just the limit of the job. So there may be things she is playing down, or omitting to tell you. You might be able to get that counselling through the local authority but it sounds like the decision may be coming in weeks rather than months? Anyway, something to think about.

@Updatemate - pm if you want: I’m a social worker who primarily works with children in long term foster care but also has assessed connected persons (which is what you are) so could help you understand their point of view. I think you are absolutely right to think so carefully about this. It’s life changing for everyone.

The social worker may recommend it as best for the kids but that doesn't mean it is best for you.

So so sorry you lost your friend. You’re doing an amazing thing. I’ve been thinking about adopting as I’d love a big family but can’t have more biological kids of my own. I understand a big family isn’t for everyone though. Your DH sounds lovely too. Would you have any say/decision over the adopting family they go to? If you could be involved in that process? There may be a childless family who are desperate to give children a loving home. I guess what I’m trying to say is maybe explore that as an option? If having 4 children isn’t what you want then that’s ok. This is your life too

Wow - what a wonderful thing to do and from your thread the warmth and affection you have for these kids shines through. Amazing

So sorry for your loss of your dear friend.
What a year ye have all had.

Both you and your husband sound like such kind people.

Your poor friend knowing she was leaving her children behind.

Great advice above.

Whilst you are luckily comfortably off, with both of you working, life as you know can throw curve balls at you.

Children become unsurprisingly expensive as they grow up, with sports, activities, education, grinds, music lessons, parties, trips, you name it.

You will want what you always planned for your two, so you should look at costs with a very clear eye.

Of course extra activities are optional but having raised 4 myself, totting up the above every year has run into several thousand each, every year.

I repeat, I know extracurricular activities etc are optional, but you need to try and think ahead in that way.

Also you never know when a child might suddenly show a huge aptitude for an instrument or a sport, and suddenly you are looking at a substantial investment. Again choice, but very hard not to want to nurture a gift.

Also transport for 2 to 4 children is more expensive car wise.
A larger house?
Teens take up a lot more space than small children.
Emotionally you and your husband have a big decision but I would not underestimate the future financial commitments.

Working fulltime with 4 children is very different to two.

Every good wish to you and your family as you plan the future.

You have provided priceless stability for those poor children.

Heartbreaking for them to have lost both parents.

I definitely also think some counselling for you and your husband, separately and together would be invaluable and to look into the impact on your own children via a child psychologist would be reassuring.

billy1966

Thanks for the advice.

Yes, the financials are something to factor in but thankfully the children are well provided for thanks to parents life insurances, death in service payouts and the sale of the family home. My friend made provision that whoever takes legal responsibility for the children inherits some of the money directly (naming us and her parents as these people) so we have around £150k per child directly to us for their care (should we get a guardianship order) this is currently being managed by the solicitors and should we want something for the children in the interim we apply to them (we don't currently do this, e.g. their Christmas presents were covered by us but we could have applied to the solicitors). Do you think this would be enough? We could probably supplement this with our earnings if needs be.

In terms of house, we are lucky that we have a large 4 bed, and one of the bedrooms could easily be made in to 2 bedrooms of about 3x4 and 3x3.5, which is the same as what is currently my DC2s room, though all 4 are currently in together in DC1s room (their choice). We are already getting a kitchen extension built which will give us more downstairs space - this was planned before all of this.

We also, luckily, already have a 7 seater car! But yes, it will affect future car purchases.

So financial and space wise we think we are ok which I know is a really fortunate position to be in but in some ways makes the decision more difficult! We both work full time and that won't change - I could (as in financially) work part time but do not want to. The school offers excellent wrap around care but yes 4x sickness absence etc.

My concern is do we have the emotional capacity for this. And yes, I think some counselling would be a good idea so will be looking in to that today.

Thank you LadyFuschia I may well do that.

I can understand your worries about your biological children missing out on your time and attention but I would say that the quality of the time you spend with them is more important than the quantity. It could be that 10-15 minutes of 1-1 time each day will be enough, especially if you focus on really listening and connecting with your child in that time. It would also be nice to have special 1-1 activities or outings.

Your children will generally be busy and happy as they have playmates on hand and will need less overall attention.

I second the idea to use household help and after school clubs to make your life easier, 4 children are a handful after all.

You sounds absolutely lovely! I honestly think the only way to make this sort of decision is to go with your heart, as you can never know what is around the corner so there is no way to make a logical decision. On this thread you've talked about how much you'd miss them if they were not with you, and that feeling is probably telling you all you need to know.

As to your bio kids - some kids love big families and some don't. As you can't know which it will be for your kids, you might as well discount that line of worry entirely, and as above, go with your heart.